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Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

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Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#231
post #134

Many years ago I idealistically tried to switch my dad over to Linux but that was a nightmare, mostly due to hardware incompatibilities. My missus also ran Linux at some point but Ubuntu upgrades kept breaking and 3G modem drivers never worked properly. But that's years ago so I am sure the desktop Linux situation has improved slightly. Since about 2010 my entire family is on Mac and support calls have also pretty mu…

Hardware incompatibilities goes both way stuff that won't work on windows or that requires some obscure/bloated driver will work plug and play on linux. Depends on the hardware and the work put on it but the opensource people. Many people have their first linux experience with ubuntu which is a shame seeing how this distribution is riddled with problems that are not being addressed because the distro is going to be b…

I have had occasional issues with Ubuntu, but differences between distros feel minor in comparison to the problems that initially coloured my perception.

My first experience with Linux was in the university computer lab. I just needed to quickly send an email. I logged in, and I couldn't figure out how to do anything. Not even log out. After asking a random other student for help, a group of people came to my aid. Turns out the desktop environment was actually broken, because the IT staff had configured it wrong. One of the other students figured out how to open a shell without using any menus and he logged me out. I decided not to use those computers again.

My second experience with Linux was on a remote terminal at my job. It was awful. Nothing worked correctly. I now realize that whoever had set up my account had done a bad copy/paste/edit job from somebody else's dotfiles, but at the time I just assumed that's how Linux was. I figured the misconfigured tcsh shell with broken autocomplete that they gave me was normal, because I had never seen anything different before. The oddly configured, licenseless RHEL desktop they gave me reinforced the idea that everything is hard on Linux.

I had an incredibly negative opinion of Linux at this point. Every interaction had shown me that Linux was a confusing mess of garbage. Then I installed Ubuntu on my desktop. It was easy and everything worked million times better. Later, I tried Fedora and CentOS and the same was true there. At that point, I realized that Linux wasn't broken and hard to use by default. It was IT staff that was ruining it.

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#232

Just to add another anecdote... Back in 2008 or so, my relatives did the really nice thing of buying my Grandma the cheapest possible Walmart computer they could find. You know the sort of Windows eMachine that comes preinstalled with spyware? Of course, my relatives live about 6 hours away from her and all of the "on site support" fell to me. In the first 2 years of my Grandma getting this computer I must have gone…

I once tried to change the color scheme in Mint. It corrupted my install and I had to wipe and start over.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem you describe is mostly because of hardware." Which does not change the fact that they are still problems - no matter how unfair it is and how little the Linux-Community is to blame for it. I used Linux on many different machines - and sadly I can confirm lots of problems with hardware. Standby/Resume, etc.

Try running macos on PC hardware and you'll feel the true pain of incompatibility. Buy hardware supported by your OS of choice. You dont buy an arm computer and expect to run windows. You shouldn't buy a PC for Windows and expect it to function perfectly for Linux.

That's not the point, though. The competitor (Windows) mostly has none of these problems, and that's pretty much what matters EOD.

If you cannot expect a generic PC to run Linux, `$currentYear is the year of the Linux Desktop` will continue to be little more than hyperbole. That's a big problem if we're looking for widespread adoption.

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#234
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets worse when dependencies have changed and now you've installed a library that's incompatible with the dependencies of an app you need and everything grinds to a halt.

Yeah, I've found that enough things change between installs that it's really tough to automate the process. Instead I keep a document that lists all the steps I need to set up my dev machine from scratch (with a data backup), and each time I go through the process I update the document. That makes it much less taxing than trying to figure out and remember everything without a guide, but is flexible enough to handle t…

I went one step farther and built an Ansible role for my workstation and try to install everything via that role. I don’t always, but it sure makes reloads and new machines easier to deal with. I have since split it into a couple roles for full desktop vs somewhere I just ssh into but have enough access to install things to suit me.

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#235
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just returned from a philosophical café about algorithms and society. A 78 year old attendee in the audience was advocating Linux to avoid junk on your computer. He claimed it's easy for anyone to switch from Windows to Linux as he had done last year. He installed Linux Mint himself, which he claimed is easy because it's just a download and he's not a technical person himself.

Something tells me a 78 year old attending a Philosophy meetup about Algorithms and Society is probably a hell of a lot smarter than your average 78 year old.

Smarter, or just more open minded and/or motivated?

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#236

My 97 year old grandpa has a MacBook Pro and a few years back he was constantly on the phone with my mom trying to fix issues. We installed a Remote Desktop server so my mom could fix things quickly. After a visit we diagnosed the problem. Because of his poor motorskills, he was clicking and clicking-and-dragging things by accident. To mitigate this, we installed some software that locked the applications in the dock…

That “mouse” is what we called a trackball in the olden days. I still kinda miss running one, but I ran out of spares for the model I loved and nothing else makes me want to switch lately. Maybe it’s time to try again.

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#237
This has been my experience as well.

So, background: I've maintained computers for various people close to me for maybe 6-7 years or so. A couple computers for my mom (laptop and desktop, with both replaced once or twice), two laptops for some younger cousins going through middle/highschool, a desktop for an aunt, and 2 of my girlfriend's laptops over the same period.

At first, I was very pessimistic about how well it would turn out. For my cousins, the thing that drove me to it was observing how overrun their computers were with viruses, adware, and spyware from all the .exe files they randomly downloaded which claimed to be games, to the point where their computers were more or less unusable (their fans would be blowing full speed and the whole thing overheating from the moment they started, it was kind of surreal). My mom had similar issues, though not quite as bad, mostly from email stuff. Over time, I grew a bit more confident in being able to manage this sort of thing, and now it's my default for this sort of situation.

So, some of the benefits I've noticed:

1. It's a lot easier to dictate terminal commands over the phone or through email than to walk someone through gui operations. If the person struggles enough with computer stuff that they can't even manage with the help of 'user friendly' interfaces, optimizing for the ease with which you can trouble-shoot and fix things over the phone is a lot more practical than chasing after the lost cause of finding a friendly enough interface for them to manage on their own. You can write an important terminal command on a post-it-note next to their compute. You can attach a shell script to an email. Or, with a little bit of setup, you can just ssh into their machine remotely whenever they're having troubles to fix it from the comfort of your own home.

2. It's very easy to set up a minimal, XP-ish interface where all of their needed programs are just right there in the start menu, and such that it's very hard for them to mess up their system such that that base level of functionality is impared.

3. Runs well on fairly limited hardware.

Some general advice if you're considering doing the same:

1. Keep a text-file with all the stuff you installed/changed on the persons computer so you can reproduce it easily in the future.

2. This is more general advice, but have separate / and /home partitions, so you don't need to move their data back and forth if something happens to the OS.

3. Look up issues with their machine and linux ahead of time before trying. It's not always a simple "you can't", sometimes you'll find out there's some firmware you need to install for their wifi to work properly etc.

4. Figure out how much autonomy they should have over their machine. If you're sort of hoping for them to be able to choose and download software on their own, and be able to try to figure out menus to configure stuff, Ubuntu or Linux Mint might be a good choice. Otherwise, surprisingly, Debian might actually be easier for both of you. I've generally found Debian stable just has fewer surprises once it's set up, and you can for the most part just ignore it for years in a way that always seems to go badly when I try it with Ubuntu or Mint, thus lowering the burden on you in maintaining it quite a bit (versus figuring out wtf happened with some random Ubuntu update, or troubleshoot for the umpteenth time how Mint screwed up apt). Decide whether they should actually have sudo privileges or not.

5. Only do it if you're prepared to be their first contact when something happens, and conversely, make absolutely sure they know to contact you first whenever there's a problem. There's nothing more frustrating than a neighbor who thinks they're tech-savy poking in, only to 'fix' things by reinstalling windows, or convincing them they must have a 'virus' because they don't understand what they're looking at.

6. MAKE SURE THE DEFAULT SAVE FORMAT FOR LIBREOFFICE IS doc NOT odf!

7. It'll feel kind of icky, but make sure you have their root password written down on a piece of paper somewhere safe. They will never remember it, and if you give them a piece of paper with it on it and tell them "absolutely do not lose this", they will lose it. Also, more general, but pwqgen is a pretty great program for generating random passwords that are fairly easy to remember.

8. Configure it to work with any home printers they need, and just set their expectations that they will not be able to figure out how to make other people's printers work with their computer. Configuring printers is a discount hell run by a counterfeit Satan.

9. Make sure they have adblock on their browser.

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "philosophical Cafe"? Sounds awesome. Edit: Google sends me to https://www.cafesphilo.org/ which sounds great but seems to be mainly limited to France.

You found the right thing. It's mostly French and exclusively European. They're places to discuss ideas and theories respectfully and civilly. I don't think the same thing exists in America in any form. The topics can vary from "the nature of choice" to something like what GP posted.

The map on that page has pins on Tunisia, Georgia, Brazil, US (NY i think) and the Caribbeans. But yes, most of the others are in France.

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a pain to have to locate and reinstall from scratch all the packages I need. dpkg --get-selections | cut -f1 > ~/installed_pkgs.log cat installed_pkgs.log | xargs sudo apt install

Tell that to your grandmother over the phone and see how much of a pain it is :)

Talk your grandmother through anything GUI related over the phone and compare. Spend half an hour trying to help her figure out which button she should press only to find out at step 3 she opened facebook instead of the start menu, and that she actually has been pressing buttons randomly for 15 minutes while producing assorted nonspecific vocalizations of agreement while doing literally none of the things you've asked.

Or even get the legendary confusion of them never having turned the machine on in the first place.

Generally, after years of experience doing exactly this, I've found it is a lot easier to dictate a literal sequence of characters over the phone than coordinate a complex visual action with only confused verbal feedback.

Of course, with terminal stuff, you have even further options in, say, sending an email with an attached bash file for them to download and click, or if this continues, set up a script for them (and ad an icon for it in their start menu) that ssh's them into a handy aws or digital ocean instance so you can then ssh into their machine from the comfort of your own home and do it yourself.

Re: Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls

#240

I switched my dad over to Chrome OS and never looked back. Now he tells all of this fiends to do the same thing because it's so much simpler. I really wish there was a better open source alternative because Google is evil these days but...

Chromebooks are a good idea, but they don't really work all that well for some simple use cases. We have a popular printer that everything else works with, but the chromebooks only work sporadically. Apple, Windoes, Linux - they all work just fine. Software from the app store is hit or miss, and when it works, there are often display issues, etc.

That is an issue, depending on the printer you have for them, but is solvable.
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