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My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

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Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#371

Post by Sholmesy »

ikurei wrote: post #330
Sholmesy wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the interest of open discussion; what heuristic do you use to value "life"? I use a combination of innocence, vulnerability, consciousness and intelligence. E.g a baby life is worth more than a 40 year old's. There's no playbook for these values, you have to decide for yourself.

I'm honestly curious, this topic (how people arrive at their morality) fascinates me. We would probably agree a lot (I don't eat meat mostly out of a similar logic). Why innocence? How does innocence make a life more valuable? It's true that the kid has done nothing wrong, whereas the 40yo has sinned thoroughly, but on the other hand the kid has done nothing good for the world, and the 40yo probably has. And vulnerab…

Innocence and vulnerability = ability to defend themselves. There's something inherently wrong about harming something that is incapable of defending themselves. I imagine it's the same instinct that makes humans root for the underdog.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#372

Post by arkades »

astura wrote: post #199
thatoneuser wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand how little these gig apps pay. 1k deposit would exclude a very large percentage of the workers. And frankly - who in the hell in their right mind would PAY a company a grand so start working for them? That's sketchy af.

You're right, but maybe that's the point? You're excluding people who are just desperate for money but keeping the people who want to build (or already own) a pet care business.

It’s dog walking, not artisanal mango cultivation. The vast majority of people picking up unskilled labor gigs through apps are just trying to make a buck. It’s almost the entire source of the app’s labor pool. And it’s not an inherently bad trait.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#373

Post by Sholmesy »

belorn wrote: post #370
throwaway713 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate you responding and explaining your perspective, even though we may disagree on the issue. > 1/2 the world treats dogs as family Do you think that half the world, if given the choice between saving either their dog or a stranger's child in a disaster situation (e.g. a house fire), would choose their dog?

Change that scenario just so slightly and I would bet that answers would significant change: Do you think a dog owner would risk their own life (to varied degrees) to rescue a family dog if their house started burning?

This is an excellent pivot of the original question, and I think the obvious answer for most answers is yes.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#374

Post by schindlabua »

throwaway713 wrote: post #245
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolute idiots Agreed. You do three things in a crisis: 1) Acknowledge the problem. You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family. "We're opening an investigation" is a chickenshit message. 2) CEO needs to speak. Personal call from the top. If a dog is seriously injured or killed while on your watch, the CEO must make the call. This shows seriousness to the customer. It also ensures top brass feels the pa…

There was a comment that is now removed that said: > Spoken like someone who's never lost family. in reply to the parent's comment that said: > You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family." My comment will probably be flagged as well, but fine, I'll sacrifice some karma to show my support. I lost my mother due to cancer when I was eleven and I personally find it offensive when someone tells me they know "w…

Reading through this thread maybe my opinion is particularly un-nuanced, but I have always assumed that people who say stuff like this are just speaking clickbait and they don't mean it and me and them know it.

People seem mostly fine a week after losing their dog and once they get a new one it's like the old one never existed. Meanwhile in my family so many things have changed in ways that are hard to describe ever since my father passed away years ago, and one can still feel the repercussions.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#375

Post by hvidgaard »

eeeuo wrote: post #314
tallanvor wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand the unconditional love that a dog has for its owner, and the commitment good people make when they choose to get one. For me it is moral and ethical that I put the safety and well being of my dog above people. That doesn't mean that I don't care about others, and it doesn't mean that I would ignore trying to save them once my dog was safe, but it is what is right for me.

I love my pets profoundly. I have sacrificed immensely for them. But I would blow my brains out if I let a little girl burn to death so that I could save my dog.

I'm completely in your camp. I don't know if I would blow my brains out. But the guilt of saving my dog over a child, would, at least for a while, completely consume me, and forever haunt me.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#376

Post by adriand »

hvidgaard wrote: post #316
zimablue wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already maintain a hierarchy of grief. If you found that a colleague was inconsolable because they'd snapped a nail, you'd judge them and respond differently than if their parent was dead. It's also not just based on how "normal" the grief is, there are plenty of very religious people who would be very upset at a relative being gay. The question "do we want to maintain a hierarchy of grief" is absurd, there is no…

Grief is subjective, there is no hierarchy, except for the individual.

A wise and correct perspective. Grief is an emotion and emotions are inherently subjective.

Our cat died two years ago and although we've had a few cats over the years, this cat was special. I was totally unprepared for the grief and pain that I, and the rest of my family members, experienced. I didn't feel like I could really even talk about it with people outside the family because it sounded ridiculous to so many people with the view of "it's just a cat!" But not this cat, and not to us.

My aunt died the same year. She was my mom's best friend and growing up I was at her house, hanging with my cousins, all the time. She was a total sweetheart: a kind, goodhearted, sweet woman with a heart of gold. When she passed I grieved, but although I feel genuinely ashamed to write this, the level of emotional intensity - the raw pain - did not reach the same level as when our cat died.

Grief over the loss of a beloved being does not come from a rational calculus of that being's worth.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#377

Post by beaconstudios »

dagw wrote: post #365
beaconstudios wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the incentives in play force companies to act callous. It seems to me that companies are wary to act with empathy lest they get sued and the court takes it as an admission of guilt (or at least evidence of culpability, or something the jury will pay attention to). It's like that old advice where you should never say "sorry" after a car accident (as a Brit, apologising is a natural impulse even when not at fau…

as a Brit, apologising is a natural impulse even when not at fault Someone explained it to me as when an American says "sorry" they mean "I'm sorry I did a bad thing to you" and when a Brit says sorry they mean "I'm sorry a bad thing happened to you". Which also explains the not uncommon American response to "sorry" of "Why? It wasn't your fault".

Yeah that's it, though many Brits also share that reaction.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#378

Post by vinceguidry »

adriand wrote: post #376
hvidgaard wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grief is subjective, there is no hierarchy, except for the individual.

A wise and correct perspective. Grief is an emotion and emotions are inherently subjective. Our cat died two years ago and although we've had a few cats over the years, this cat was special. I was totally unprepared for the grief and pain that I, and the rest of my family members, experienced. I didn't feel like I could really even talk about it with people outside the family because it sounded ridiculous to so many…

I have found grief to be in direct proportion to the emotional dependence we have. A pet would have been more consistently there in times of emotional distress, while an aunt would not have been. It's not a question of animal vs. human, it's a question of which has more time and feeling invested, and humans tend to invest their emotions more in pets than each other so it hurts more when they're lost.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#379

Post by State_Of_Mind »

throwaway713 wrote: post #266
tallanvor wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't surprise me at all. My dog is part of my family. She comes before any stranger.

I can't argue with an opinion, but this is just mind-blowing to me. Judging by everyone else's comments, it doesn't appear like yours is an isolated opinion either. I'm just at a total loss for words. I had no idea so many people value animal life above human life.

I fear that this is really getting off track for the main and this might be in response to the wrong comment but is it really that surprising? (sadly)

In another comment of yours you mentioned choosing a pet or a random child? What about another, supposedly easier question, which would you prefer to save? A human life or $23? $23 might seem arbitrary but I picked it from my personal experience with a charity I volunteer with called ICM. It helps those with ultra poverty in the Philippines and I've had the great blessing (and curse) to undertake a tragic trip to the slums to meet these people. So I know the best I can offer is mine and ICM's word but that really can save a life.

I want you to know I don't bring this up to try and start a fight or be argumentative but this question plagued me when I returned home and to some extent still does. How can I buy a video game (random example), knowing that money I've just spent could have saved a life?

How do I, how do we, live like this? I'm an Australian and statistically, we're only giving less with each passing year, and what we do give? As on 2016 a measly $764. For comparison our minimum weekly wage is about ~$670. The least able of us (that are able at all) would only have to give a little over one of their weeks to match that.

Personally I'm the sort of crazy where I think of this almost every time I make a purchase and for the longest time it was killing me. The TL;DR of how I was able to answer this for myself involves a lot of reading, looking and thinking is basically summed up as follows. For most normal humans (myself included) we need to spend on ourselves to make us functional enough to care for others. We are sadly not infinite source of giving.

However I think society today has forgotten or changed enough that we no longer see this self healing as a means to enable us to help others but as the point of living, hence the ever decreasing percentages of people giving but I still have hope.

I'm sorry at this point I don't know exactly where I'm going with this at this but it's not that people value animal life above human life, it's that they value their own life and quality of life above others and as sucky as that answer is, I hope you find it help answer your questions in a manner that makes more sense.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#380

Post by throwaway-dogs »

andrepd wrote: post #353
throwaway-dogs wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, absolutely. I know I personally would. Now, if it was between a stranger dog and a stranger child I'd choose the child.

Then you are a terrible and deeply selfish person.

Why? This may be how you feel, but you have no reasoning to back it.
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