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My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

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Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#321

Post by ironcan »

zimablue wrote: post #313
barrkel wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really want to create a hierarchy of grief, to say other people's pain is invalid? I know that losing a pet hurts a lot more than losing a grandparent or aunt or uncle when they're not ever-present in your life. I have not lost parents yet, but at this remove in my life they are in many ways just people I used to know - my personality and values are quite different to them and I find it hard to empathize with t…

You already maintain a hierarchy of grief. If you found that a colleague was inconsolable because they'd snapped a nail, you'd judge them and respond differently than if their parent was dead. It's also not just based on how "normal" the grief is, there are plenty of very religious people who would be very upset at a relative being gay. The question "do we want to maintain a hierarchy of grief" is absurd, there is no…

I think a better example would be losing a partner vs losing a distant relative, snapping a nail sounds like apple and oranges.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#322

Post by harimau777 »

throwaway713 wrote: post #253
Sholmesy wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has lost friends and family members, as well as pets, it feels the same. I see this dichotomy quite a bit in the public discourse, regarding dogs especially, where 1/2 the world treats dogs as family and the other half thinks they are some play toy/object. We have been living with wolves/dogs for a long time now, we're responsible for how they have evolved, and part of that is how they have evolved to…

I appreciate you responding and explaining your perspective, even though we may disagree on the issue. > 1/2 the world treats dogs as family Do you think that half the world, if given the choice between saving either their dog or a stranger's child in a disaster situation (e.g. a house fire), would choose their dog?

This situation probably doesn't apply to people on HN, but as a thought experiment: In a pre-industrial society or one where rule of law has broken down I could see a situation where the labor and protection provided by an animal made them a part of the family in a very real way. In those circumstances I could see that the life of an animal might be much more important than the life of an outsider; even if only in a strictly practical sense.

Note that I'm not necessarily trying to argue whether that would be correct in a moral sense.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#323

Post by harimau777 »

snthd wrote: post #317
throwaway713 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a comment that is now removed that said: > Spoken like someone who's never lost family. in reply to the parent's comment that said: > You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family." My comment will probably be flagged as well, but fine, I'll sacrifice some karma to show my support. I lost my mother due to cancer when I was eleven and I personally find it offensive when someone tells me they know "w…

The problem is not that the comparison is valid or invalid, but that someone supporting you shouldn't be making it about them . Brené Brown on Empathy - The RSA https://youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw

Couldn't trying to find common experience be a useful/valid way to express empathy?

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#325

Post by StrangeOrange »

throwaway713 wrote: post #245
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolute idiots Agreed. You do three things in a crisis: 1) Acknowledge the problem. You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family. "We're opening an investigation" is a chickenshit message. 2) CEO needs to speak. Personal call from the top. If a dog is seriously injured or killed while on your watch, the CEO must make the call. This shows seriousness to the customer. It also ensures top brass feels the pa…

There was a comment that is now removed that said: > Spoken like someone who's never lost family. in reply to the parent's comment that said: > You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family." My comment will probably be flagged as well, but fine, I'll sacrifice some karma to show my support. I lost my mother due to cancer when I was eleven and I personally find it offensive when someone tells me they know "w…

Thankfully offence isn't fatal. And dogs are wonderful things

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#326

Post by dTal »

throwaway713 wrote: post #245
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolute idiots Agreed. You do three things in a crisis: 1) Acknowledge the problem. You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family. "We're opening an investigation" is a chickenshit message. 2) CEO needs to speak. Personal call from the top. If a dog is seriously injured or killed while on your watch, the CEO must make the call. This shows seriousness to the customer. It also ensures top brass feels the pa…

There was a comment that is now removed that said: > Spoken like someone who's never lost family. in reply to the parent's comment that said: > You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family." My comment will probably be flagged as well, but fine, I'll sacrifice some karma to show my support. I lost my mother due to cancer when I was eleven and I personally find it offensive when someone tells me they know "w…

Well, I am also offended by your stipulations. Now we are both offended. Let's use this as a chance to practice seeing eye-to-eye even in the face of irreconcilable moral differences, eh? It's a skill we're probably going to need as a civilization.

Now, the specifics - it seems to me the particular moral axiom in question here is that "human life is always worth more than non-human life". Others in this thread have pointed out that you can't use that to make statements about what sort of grief people ought to feel, and I would hope that whatever your moral framework, compassion for grieving humans (whatever their moral framework) should factor into it.

However, I also think it's worth tackling this particular moral axiom head-on. The value of a human life is not constant or consistent between people - your own family is worth more to you than a stanger's, and you even admit that a dog might warrant more grief than a terrible person, even if that terrible person is family. Well, the value of a canine life isn't constant either. If it's possible and justifiable to love a dog more than family because the family is bad, why shouldn't it be possible and justifiable to love a dog as much as family, because the dog is good? There's a continuum, not a hard cutoff of "humans > dogs". Even if you think the average human is worth more than the average dog, you shouldn't be surprised - or offended - by other people's bereavement.

(I'd like to add an argument-from-Hollywood: They even made a whole film about a man cutting a swathe through evil, violent mobsters in a righteous fury, because they killed his dog. They made a very similar film about a man doing this because evil, violent mobsters kidnapped his daughter. Clearly, the emotions are comparable, and according to hollywood dogs and family are both worth more than evil, violent, human mobsters).

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#327

Post by loktarogar »

zimablue wrote: post #313
barrkel wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really want to create a hierarchy of grief, to say other people's pain is invalid? I know that losing a pet hurts a lot more than losing a grandparent or aunt or uncle when they're not ever-present in your life. I have not lost parents yet, but at this remove in my life they are in many ways just people I used to know - my personality and values are quite different to them and I find it hard to empathize with t…

You already maintain a hierarchy of grief. If you found that a colleague was inconsolable because they'd snapped a nail, you'd judge them and respond differently than if their parent was dead. It's also not just based on how "normal" the grief is, there are plenty of very religious people who would be very upset at a relative being gay. The question "do we want to maintain a hierarchy of grief" is absurd, there is no…

Of course you maintain a heirarchy of grief, but it's your heirarchy - it's not a shared heirarchy where your loss of a close relationship is deigned less or greater than someone else's loss of a close relationship.

Grief is grief. What's at the top of your list might not be the top of someone elses. You don't invalidate someone else's grief because yours ranks higher on your own list.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#328

Post by drewmol »

BucketSort wrote: post #177
gafferongames wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OH COME ON!

Sorry, I don't consider a Facebook post to be a good source of information to develop my views on. We don't have sources, we don't have reports, we just have a random post. I personally find it strange that there was no police report that the owner of the dog could check on to see how their dog died. I encourage you to reserve judgement unless you have a few sources to validate the facts.

It'a possible there is, but unlikely. If there is, without knowing location (jurisdiction and precinct to inquire) of the accident or names of the humans involved (likely required to search records) it would be hard to find.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#329

Post by mav3rick »

vectorEQ wrote: post #324

im just wondering why get a dog if you don't have time for it. seems cruel in itself. a lot of people get dogs and can't walk them or have actual time for them, yet they say they are like family or kids.... i'm sure you do have time for them though :/

Why have babies if you are calling a babysitter ? Things happen, parents need to go to adult events etc.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#330

Post by ikurei »

Sholmesy wrote: post #308
throwaway713 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't argue with an opinion, but this is just mind-blowing to me. Judging by everyone else's comments, it doesn't appear like yours is an isolated opinion either. I'm just at a total loss for words. I had no idea so many people value animal life above human life.

In the interest of open discussion; what heuristic do you use to value "life"? I use a combination of innocence, vulnerability, consciousness and intelligence. E.g a baby life is worth more than a 40 year old's. There's no playbook for these values, you have to decide for yourself.

I'm honestly curious, this topic (how people arrive at their morality) fascinates me. We would probably agree a lot (I don't eat meat mostly out of a similar logic).

Why innocence? How does innocence make a life more valuable? It's true that the kid has done nothing wrong, whereas the 40yo has sinned thoroughly, but on the other hand the kid has done nothing good for the world, and the 40yo probably has.

And vulnerability? If a high-speed train/cancer/thug is going to kill a 40yo and a toddler, how does the increased inherent vulnerability of the toddler make any difference?

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