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My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

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Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#291

Incredibly stupid decision to respond this way by Wag. How bad to you have to be at PR to screw this up? It's not hard. Liability in the case of harmed pets is extremely limited, so you just pay it all and apologize profusely. There's no way the bad press will be worth saving a couple thousand maximum. Absolute idiots.

> Absolute idiots Agreed. You do three things in a crisis: 1) Acknowledge the problem. You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family. "We're opening an investigation" is a chickenshit message. 2) CEO needs to speak. Personal call from the top. If a dog is seriously injured or killed while on your watch, the CEO must make the call. This shows seriousness to the customer. It also ensures top brass feels the pa…

I'm not entirely sure that the third item is correct. Doesn't that risks you having to repeat that whenever there's an accident?

Of course a dog walking company shouldn't have that many incidents, but if a number of them hit you together you may have a financial problem.

Also, I think that companies are very wary of claiming responsibility because of legal battles. Once they behave like it's their fault, customers can sue them for a large sum.

I'm just challenging a bit whether this is the best way to go about this, although in my own opinion, all three points are correct: You messed up. It happens. But now it's up to you to try to make it better.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#292

Incredibly stupid decision to respond this way by Wag. How bad to you have to be at PR to screw this up? It's not hard. Liability in the case of harmed pets is extremely limited, so you just pay it all and apologize profusely. There's no way the bad press will be worth saving a couple thousand maximum. Absolute idiots.

> Absolute idiots Agreed. You do three things in a crisis: 1) Acknowledge the problem. You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family. "We're opening an investigation" is a chickenshit message. 2) CEO needs to speak. Personal call from the top. If a dog is seriously injured or killed while on your watch, the CEO must make the call. This shows seriousness to the customer. It also ensures top brass feels the pa…

Eh - no, that loosing a dog hits like family, is a very ameri-european idea. Everywhere else its just a dog.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolute idiots Agreed. You do three things in a crisis: 1) Acknowledge the problem. You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family. "We're opening an investigation" is a chickenshit message. 2) CEO needs to speak. Personal call from the top. If a dog is seriously injured or killed while on your watch, the CEO must make the call. This shows seriousness to the customer. It also ensures top brass feels the pa…

There was a comment that is now removed that said: > Spoken like someone who's never lost family. in reply to the parent's comment that said: > You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family." My comment will probably be flagged as well, but fine, I'll sacrifice some karma to show my support. I lost my mother due to cancer when I was eleven and I personally find it offensive when someone tells me they know "w…

The grief you felt when you lost your mother may or may not compare to the grief I felt when I lost my mother. So how dare you say you know "what it is like" - you have no idea.

My point is that grief is subjective - people spiral into depression over losing pets, while their parents can die without them batting an eye. Teenagers, with all the out of wack hormones can feel the same way over losing a girl/boyfriend.

When people say "I know what it is like because I lose my dog of 10 years when I was 13", they're telling you that they too have felt great despair, grief and sorrow. They know the feeling deep in their heart and they're expression sympathy. Instead being offended and being angry, let the sympathy help you.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a comment that is now removed that said: > Spoken like someone who's never lost family. in reply to the parent's comment that said: > You killed someone's dog. This hits like losing family." My comment will probably be flagged as well, but fine, I'll sacrifice some karma to show my support. I lost my mother due to cancer when I was eleven and I personally find it offensive when someone tells me they know "w…

Ah, we’re playing grief top trumps, are we? How about losing a child? Have you done that? Well, I find it offensive that you can say you experienced grief over the loss of your mother. Until you’ve lost a child you can’t say you know grief... What a daft stance. Grief is grief. What someone feels is entirely subjective. I think you might want to consider counselling, as you seem to be harbouring some real anger over…

Yep, lack of empathy is usually disguised as politically correct (fake) empathy.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#296

Family has a dog. Family's dog needed a walk. There is a dog walking service called Wag. Family hires unidentified walker through Wag. Dog dies. Wag doesn't care and doesn't want to be held accountable. Family announces incident on Facebook. First world problems.

that's not what "first world problems" means. That's for people making a big deal about trivial problems. This isn't trivial, it's terrible.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#297
post #179
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting story but someone I work with was actually severely rear-ended by an Uber driver heading to the airport, and she said the driver's insurance wouldn't cover the driver because the driver was acting as an Uber driver at the time of the accident. Don't know the insurance co., but I definitely remember being shocked by the fact that they wouldn't cover the driver for that reason

Commercial insurance is whole different ball game than personal insurance. Personal insurance typically doesnt cover commercial use. Driving for Uber is a commercial activity. I guess uber has an insurance policy that covers their drivers during rides now, so hopefully that kicked in to take care of your friend. Everyone should read their insurance policies to know their exclusions.

Note that most insurance providers won't cover drivers who have used their car to drive for Uber, regardless of whether they're driving for Uber at the time of the incident. Uber may cover you if you're on a trip, but it's up to you to make sure you have the right insurance plan (which usually means paying a nominal surcharge to your insurance provider in the US) to have insurance the rest of the time.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely seems they could and need to do more to tighten up the accountability on the platform. No doubt about that. I don't know that it's accurate to say the contractor doesn't care. If they were a psychopath I could agree with that, but most people have had the experience of having either a pet, friend or relative die and know how deeply it affects people emotionally and to know you were responsible for that…

It's extremely hard to engineer a situation in which no one ever experiences a negative outcome True; nevertheless: good engineering practice dictates that you design a product, service or component in a way that it gracefully fails. A good example is the regulator for scuba diving (the thing that enables you to breathe and which contains the main valve, through which you breathe and the second stage, referred to as…

I love this comment and I think it's right on the money to say that we ought to engineer things in the best possible way we can.

I have a couple of thoughts...

There is a sort of dialectic that unfolds with regards to what fail-safes should be engineered and how to engineer them. It perhaps might be possible in some cases to compute a priori what fail-safe mechanisms a system needs to include, but for the most part it seems that a catastrophe (or a string of them) first unfolds which then gives you the necessary information as to what the requirements are for the fail-safe. I think this is a very important point worth stressing. As it relates to this incident, I'll grant you they probably could have done better from the outset, but I stand by the comment that sometimes it's not possible to compute ahead of time what fail-safes you need and experiencing these kind of PR disasters is just part of the journey towards a system that works better. Call it dialectical engineering if you will. If there is another, better, actual name that concept goes by I'd like to know if anyone can tell me.

The other comment would be that I like to think about things from a control-theoretic and systems thinking point of a view and that this particular statement of "It's extremely hard to engineer a situation in which no one ever experiences a negative outcome" is a real core, axiomatic belief for me that I base a lot of my thinking and critiques of things around. I like what you have to say about engineering. It's very apt. I always couch my thoughts / analyses in the broadest possible context. So in the case of the regulator for scuba diving my mind flashes back to the terrifying stories I have read about people who let their concentration lapse at a critical juncture in a cave and panicked when they realised they couldn't find their way back and in that case it didn't matter that their regulator worked or not because it was their mind that had failed them. You mention training as being a crucial input to the system and I absolutely agree. I go so far as to include the cave itself as a constraint in the whole system design as well as all the pitfalls of the human mind. So it's not just the device but the entire context in which the device operates that's the important thing.

Human engineered machines gracefully fail; humans do not. We have this deep need to play the blame game when things go wrong. We all do it and we all understand it, but it's not always justified and I think that matters. I like to try and get to the bottom of whether the moral outrage suffered by people is justified in situations where they were harmed but it wasn't necessarily the fault of someone. Well, it might be the fault of someone, but that also might just be a necessary part of the process a la my concept of dialectical engineering. It's a complicated topic.

Of course you will be outraged or upset if your dog dies while in the care of somebody else and you aren't likely to sit and get all philosophical about it, but when you play the blame game you search for the most salient (to you) cause or potential cause of your effect and you attribute it to that. I think it's often stunningly likely you're making an error in judgement when you do this, because of the hard problem of delineation you can't necessarily compute what the actual cause is with any degree of accuracy so epistemology comes in to play. How do you know that what you're mad at is the appropriate thing to be mad at?

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#299
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found the vegan. Also, I'm vegan. Secondly, is every comment on HN perfectly on point and never tangentially related? No, many many popular threads are not directly related.

There is also a very stark difference between whipping a dog until it vomits blood for fun, and killing an animal immediatly for food.

> killing an animal immediatly for food.

That's often not the case. For instance, male chicks are often killed and discarded solely for not being able to lay eggs, and various other animals are unnecessarily raised in inhumane (meaning "less than human" here) conditions until they are killed, not always for food.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate you responding and explaining your perspective, even though we may disagree on the issue. > 1/2 the world treats dogs as family Do you think that half the world, if given the choice between saving either their dog or a stranger's child in a disaster situation (e.g. a house fire), would choose their dog?

There would be more social opprobrium to save the pet, and the grief would undoubtedly be greater if the pet died instead. If nobody was looking, I think most would save their pet. Unknown unrelated people simply aren't very important. Wars would be impossible if it were otherwise.

Interesting. Do you ever test your hypotheses? Here is some evidence regarding your "most" claim. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog...
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