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MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

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Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#171

Post by Thaxll »

nnq wrote: post #136
Thaxll wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any serious deployment know that one should never deploy mysql / mongodb / postgress with the default maintainer repo.

Serious: WHY?

It's either not in the base repo / unmaintained quickly. I remember running MySQL on Debian / CentOS couple of years ago it was a joke how old the versions were.

You should always use the official repo ( with provided RPM / deb ) for that kind of app.

Example for CentOS 7.x:

yum info mysql-connector-java.noarch

Name : mysql-connector-java Arch : noarch Epoch : 1 Version : 5.1.25 Release : 3.el7 Size : 1.3 M Repo : base/7/x86_64 Summary : Official JDBC driver for MySQL

Quick look at when was this released: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/connector-j/5.1/en/news-5...

(2013-05-01) Almost 6 years old.

Latest official version for 5.1.x was released 5 month ago: Changes in MySQL Connector/J 5.1.47 (2018-08-17)

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#172

Post by diminoten »

pilif wrote: post #126
diminoten wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the point is, from a practical standpoint, nothing has changed. You were doing that before if you were using MongoDB + RHEL, so you'll still be doing that now.

No. Before I could use the OS built-in MongoDB and get 10 years worth of security update for that version. Now I need to fetch the version packaged by MongoDB of which I don’t know the release cycles and years of included support. Plus, it’s an additional subscription cost and per-server license.

Could? Yes. Did you? Probably not.

It's not how MongoDB teaches: https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/tutorial/install-mongodb-on-...

And it's a blatant lie to say you don't know the supportability of MongoDB, as they publish it directly on their site: https://www.mongodb.com/support-policy

This means nothing, practically. It's grandstanding, and it's annoying. Stop.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#173

Post by metheus »

DanielDent wrote: post #140
merlynn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael from MongoDB here... Greed? You realize that anyone can still view, download, use, develop, modify and do everything they could do prior to the change - right? The only difference is that if they decide to offer the licensed software as a public service they must release the other components of the service under the same license.

Nonsense. The AGPL is a pretty nasty license to begin with, but this new license makes your software nearly useless. For example: prior to this change, people could develop an extension to MongoDB which combined MongoDB with some GPLv3 software, and they could then freely redistribute that combined work. Now they cannot. MongoDB may as well be Oracle as far as most developers will care now (that isn't a compliment).

The SSPLv2, currently under review by the OSI, does not have this property.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#174

Post by giancarlostoro »

klez wrote: post #74
giancarlostoro wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AGPL doesn't target specific users of the software, it affects all users regardless of how they use it.

We're specifically talking about GPL.

And in the parent post in the thread I mentioned the AGPL vs the SSPL. I was adding a contrast of the AGPL vs SSPL.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#175

Post by StreamBright »

pahool wrote: post #169
StreamBright wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only migrated companies away from it. I prefer reliable data stores. Postgres + Riak always got my back, 15years, 8 years in production respectively.

Isn't riak dead?

Why would it be?

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#176

Post by metheus »

gnulinux wrote: post #154
merlynn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael from MongoDB here... Greed? You realize that anyone can still view, download, use, develop, modify and do everything they could do prior to the change - right? The only difference is that if they decide to offer the licensed software as a public service they must release the other components of the service under the same license.

Yeah but both free software and open source are well defined terms MongoDB doesn't have power to redefine (sorry guys). It's good to be principled because then you make fewer arbitrary decisions along the way. Your new license isn't free nor open; it's just a custom proprietary license that allows people see the source code and fork; just like freeware software can be "for gratis" but it's never "free software" or "o…

I also work for MongoDB.

I respect your opinion about whether the SSPL is free or open, but it is not one that is uniformly shared by the OSI, as evidenced by the discussion currently underway in the license-approval mailing list. Many have argued in its favor. On that basis, some of your assertions in paragraph one are subjective.

Not that there’s anything wrong with subjectivity! I think it is valid to ask the question of whether the move was motivated by greed... it’s even understandable why people would default to that conclusion. (I wish that weren’t the case, but I’m not naive.)

Since you’re asking, I will give you my answer: the SSPL was created to make it viable for open source projects that are largely or completely funded by a single entity to remain funded in an era of large cloud vendors. While it is about revenue, it is not about greed.

The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, and I won’t ask you to just buy my claim. Just keep your eyes open for a conspicuous absence of MongoDB strong-arming community MongoDB users into buying commercial licenses.

As far as including MongoDB in Debian et al, goes, we absolutely respect process and principles. We’re waiting to see what the feedback from the OSI is.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#177

Post by e1ven »

zachruss92 wrote: post #165

I'm not super surprised that RHEL removed Mongo because of the licensing change. I don't completely understand why people getting upset about the licensing, however. As far as I know, MongoDB is still open source. If you are a hosting provider offering "MongoDB as a Service" the provider then needs to pay a licensing fee to Mongo. This seems ok to me, with the logic that MongoDB is a business that needs to make money…

It is not generally considered Open Source.

The new license was rejected by the OSI, which is generally regarded as the defacto arbitrator of if something is OSS or not. It was also rejected by Red Hat and Debian as being not open source.

There are various issues with the license, including the scope of what they considered tainted. You could read the mailing list archives on the subject, or there appears to be a summary at https://opensource.stackexchange.com/a/7523

The newly submitted v2 of the license hasn't resolved (m)any of the problems that the OSI has raised, and isn't expected to be approved either.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#178

Post by jhasse »

merlynn wrote: post #137
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

Michael from MongoDB here... Greed? You realize that anyone can still view, download, use, develop, modify and do everything they could do prior to the change - right? The only difference is that if they decide to offer the licensed software as a public service they must release the other components of the service under the same license.

Isn't this covered by the AGPL already?

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#180

Post by matthewmacleod »

zachruss92 wrote: post #165

I'm not super surprised that RHEL removed Mongo because of the licensing change. I don't completely understand why people getting upset about the licensing, however. As far as I know, MongoDB is still open source. If you are a hosting provider offering "MongoDB as a Service" the provider then needs to pay a licensing fee to Mongo. This seems ok to me, with the logic that MongoDB is a business that needs to make money…

As far as I know, MongoDB is still open source. If you are a hosting provider offering "MongoDB as a Service" the provider then needs to pay a licensing fee to Mongo.

To me, those are two contradictory statements. The software is not open-source if its license restricts the purposes for which it can be used, QED.

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