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MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

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Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#131

Post by merlynn »

pilif wrote: post #126
diminoten wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the point is, from a practical standpoint, nothing has changed. You were doing that before if you were using MongoDB + RHEL, so you'll still be doing that now.

No. Before I could use the OS built-in MongoDB and get 10 years worth of security update for that version. Now I need to fetch the version packaged by MongoDB of which I don’t know the release cycles and years of included support. Plus, it’s an additional subscription cost and per-server license.

Michael from MongoDB here. Are you assuming RedHat is patching MongoDB at a rate more frequently than MongoDB itself - not the case. Also, there is NO additional cost per-server-license for MongoDB Community. You should know that you can simply subscribe to the latest version (as well as older versions) of maintained packages for various os's and distributions... and these are available at no charge. More information: https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/tutorial/install-mongodb-on-...

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#132

Post by kstrauser »

threeseed wrote: post #123
kstrauser wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PostgreSQL is used much more widely than MongoDB, and has a much freer license. Lots of people make money developing and supporting PostgreSQL. I also content that MongoDB built their project on top of a mountain of Free Software. It rings a little hollow to me when they complain that others are making money from using their software, when the MongoDB team is also making money from using others' software. Last I chec…

> Last I checked, they weren't a major contributor to the Linux kernel, or GNU, or GCC, or Emacs/Vim MongoDB only needs the Linux kernel/GNU/GCC when it's running or compiling on Linux. On OSX and Windows it uses other toolchains. And your point goes against the entire spirit of open source. No one should be forced to contribute back to open source less they be criticised by the community.

> MongoDB only needs the Linux kernel/GNU/GCC when it's running or compiling on Linux.

Good call. They should also be contributing back to those toolchains.

> No one should be forced to contribute back to open source less they be criticised by the community.

That right there is what we call irony. This is precisely what Mongo is trying to do.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#133

Post by nwmcsween »

jhall1468 wrote: post #127
nwmcsween wrote: post #96

This is rich coming from Redhat that does shady things with subscription license agreements and open-source software.

Nothing Redhat does is shady. There's nothing wrong with license agreements for closed source software, or even license-agreements that support open source software. The latter is how open source companies make money.

The license agreements restrict use of the work on top of the GPL, same as mongo does..

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#134

Post by nnq »

...why would almost anyone using MongoDB care at all if it's included in a distro's set of default packages?!

Don't we all always install software from repositories hosted by third parties? As long as the Mongo devs keep supporting RHEL, I'd see no problem for actual direct users of it. And SSPL sounds like a pretty good and sensible thing.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#135

Post by RobLach »

tpaschalis wrote: post #78
acdha wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a somewhat different situation: they take different levels of purity test on licensing (not to mention falling under different legal considerations depending on where the developers reside) but adding or removing Mongo has little ripple effect for anyone who doesn't use it. If they don't ship it, the people who were using it will switch to Mongo's main YUM repo and nobody else will notice. In contrast, changin…

Well, yes, you're very much right on that regard, and as others mentioned, the 'official installation instructions' were always using Mongo's official repo, so it's a different case. But I still feel that Red Hat has pull with the Linux industry, and others might make their decisions based on "what's RHEL up to".

Interesting to realize that also now means “what’s IBM up to”; which carries its own weight, positive or negative.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#136

Post by nnq »

Thaxll wrote: post #50
pilif wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The installation instructions I've always followed for MongoDB start with importing a key, and adding their official repo to my source list. Going with the maintainer's repo means that you trust the maintainer with providing security updates for the version you have installed or you trust them with providing a useable upgrade path. If you go with a distro package, you will get both the benefits of security updates…

Any serious deployment know that one should never deploy mysql / mongodb / postgress with the default maintainer repo.

Serious: WHY?

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#137

Post by merlynn »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

Michael from MongoDB here... Greed? You realize that anyone can still view, download, use, develop, modify and do everything they could do prior to the change - right? The only difference is that if they decide to offer the licensed software as a public service they must release the other components of the service under the same license.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#138

Post by antt »

merlynn wrote: post #137
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

Michael from MongoDB here... Greed? You realize that anyone can still view, download, use, develop, modify and do everything they could do prior to the change - right? The only difference is that if they decide to offer the licensed software as a public service they must release the other components of the service under the same license.

>It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

I'd say I'm surprised that some people are attacking your license, which overall forces providers to increase user freedom, but I remember the 90s and 00s when the GPL/AGPL was being attacked as a non-free (as in freedom) license - "How can it respect freedom when it FORCES me to release my source code?"

The same people today go on about how great the CC licenses are when they have the NC-SA, which I've been using for my artistic projects since it came out.

Do you have a Stallman like wall of text about defending users freedoms? Because there are enough people who would read it and understand what you're doing once they get past the FUD of "It's proprietary!!!".

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#139

Post by sieabahlpark »

merlynn wrote: post #137
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

Michael from MongoDB here... Greed? You realize that anyone can still view, download, use, develop, modify and do everything they could do prior to the change - right? The only difference is that if they decide to offer the licensed software as a public service they must release the other components of the service under the same license.

Thanks for finally giving Amazon the kick it needed to implement your API. We finally don't have to manage a mongodb cluster anymore.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#140

Post by DanielDent »

merlynn wrote: post #137
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

Michael from MongoDB here... Greed? You realize that anyone can still view, download, use, develop, modify and do everything they could do prior to the change - right? The only difference is that if they decide to offer the licensed software as a public service they must release the other components of the service under the same license.

Nonsense. The AGPL is a pretty nasty license to begin with, but this new license makes your software nearly useless.

For example: prior to this change, people could develop an extension to MongoDB which combined MongoDB with some GPLv3 software, and they could then freely redistribute that combined work.

Now they cannot.

MongoDB may as well be Oracle as far as most developers will care now (that isn't a compliment).

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