Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

861–870 of 1001 posts

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#861

Post by ajuc »

bookbinder wrote: post #847
ajuc wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not the voter’s fault. Yes it is. Asked "do you want to fundamentally change status quo in some random yet to be decided way that most experts warn you will result in chaos" population should have voted "no". Population would have voted "no" if just a few more young people cared enough to get their asses to the voting booths. The lessons from Brexit are the same as the lessons from Trump in USA, Kaczyński i…

Why is ajuc's comment being downvoted?

Cause I was mistaken about young people turnout?

Or just people don't like bashing them for voting populists :)

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#862

Post by cardinalfang »

794CD01 wrote: post #350
Traster wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On point 2, there's quite a complex answer. Firstly, the vote was basically "Leave or Remain". Remain meant stay in the EU on the current known terms. Leave meant... well: You could leave the EU but remain a part of the single market for trade (this was promised during the referendum), you could leave but have a custom arrangement with the EU like Switzerland which means you retain EU law but have no vote (this was a…

If only god had created runoff voting.

According to the Alternative Vote referendum "No to AV" campaign, God cannot simultaneously handle runoff voting and care for newborn babies.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#863

Post by pete_b »

Everyone has a plan right now in the UK parliament. Probably over half of parliament is hoping to push the UK into a 'cancel Brexit' scenario, despite claiming they respect the referendum result. Possibly a third of parliament have given up on the prospect of a reasonable deal with the EU and are holding out for a no-deal WTO exit. A minority are still seeking a last-minute deal that everyone can agree on.

It has always been my belief that a good trade deal between the UK and the EU is only possible if the UK is actually willing to go no-deal WTO first. Simply because the EU never concedes anything in good faith when it comes to negotiations.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#864

Post by jrumbut »

dmurray wrote: post #852
nraynaud wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the voter’s fault. In a functioning democracy, there is a system to approve a text by popular vote instead of the usual parlement. So the question at such a vote should always be: “do you approve the proposed text?”, then the text becomes law. By organizing an abstract opinion poll, the government just prepared a shit show, there no way to make any significant chunk of the population happy, everybody had…

I don't see how this could reasonably have been done in the Brexit case. You would have to spend years negotiating the terms of the withdrawal first, then ask the people for a yea or nay. That negotiation would go totally differently if the UK government couldn't credibly claim it had a mandate from the people for the withdrawal.

In retrospect, it didn't go all too well with the mandate either.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#865

Post by hkt »

desertedisland wrote: post #798
jcranmer wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU council could have offered some reasonable concessions in order to remain, both before and after the referendum, but nada. The essential problem with the Brexit movement is that it's based not on what the EU is but on the distorted view on what the EU is. When you start tackling the specific complaints that people had, it often turns out that it was the British government who had the power to alter the polic…

Here are some specific complaints about the EU: - Nobody in the UK ever voted for an external, supra-national government to have increasing control over numerous and increasing aspects of British life: farming, fishing, immigration, subsidies, etc. etc. - The EU is openly talking about a unified army, implementation of a law requiring all members to join the Euro and 'tax harmonisation': the removal of sovereign coun…

We went into the EEC after a referendum.

Also, we're mostly a representative democracy. That means we vote for representatives whose job it is to.. represent us. Make decisions on our behalf. etc.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#866

Post by alexgmcm »

blibble wrote: post #98
lawn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see this popular sentiment at the same time as the EU is loudly complained about concerning their new internet rules.

don't let the echo chamber fool you: the popular sentiment remains as it was on the day of the vote the polls have hardly moved despite the political fuss

Ah yes, that magnificent majority of 52%..

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#867

Post by robin_reala »

hkt wrote: post #859
kristianc wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One would think that the EU would be in a better position to get better deals than a single country. One would think, but the EU has been trying and failing to secure any kind of a trade deal with the US, largely due to Europe's instinctive love of protectionism.

protectionism/standards. Remember, our cheese doesn't come out of a tube, usually.

I was going to use Primula as a counter-example, but then I remembered it’s Norwegian.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#868

Post by rezeroed »

meepmorp wrote: post #604
accnumnplus1 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is "leave the EU" nebulous? There's nothing nebulous about it. The only thing that's nebulous, as Juncker said, is Theresa May with her faux-brexit deal.

It’s nebulous because “leave the EU,” means everything from remaining in the SM and CU, to having no formal relationship with the EU, and a number of positions in between. People voted for the leave option without well defined idea of what that choice entailed. Remain, by contrast, was basically about keeping things as-is.

"no formal relationship with the EU" - anything else wouldn't really be leaving, would it? It would be partial leaving. The vote wasn't for partial leaving.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#869

Post by SZJX »

asabjorn wrote: post #709
dTal wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can deny it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_Russian_interference_i... Of particular interest is where the massive pile of cash that funded the Leave campaign actually came from.

It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia, and any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. It is i…

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Sounds just like rehashing the what the mainstream western media have been drumming to tedium. If you genuinely believe that everything including Brexit and Donald trump is "caused" by Russia it's you that need to be much "better informed". If not then you're deliberately trying to deflect the focus just like what the Democrats and in general the mainstream media have been doing for all these years.

Also, the US have probably engaged in far more foreign inferences which are much more direct and violent than these events where Russia had a (shadowy) share. Ironic that now the western world are in uproar now that they are subject to some of their own classic tactics eh?

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#870

Post by davman »

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #590
hanoz wrote: post #334

The deal was the worst of all worlds and deliberately designed to fail. The whole project since the referendum has been to work towards the palatable introduction of a second referendum whilst spending the intervening time demonstrating the impossibility of a good deal and the awfulness of no deal. We will now proceed to run down the clock towards the no deal 'cliff edge' and as the precipice looms go to the EU askin…

Absolutely this. The day brexit was being voted, I said I would eat my socks if brexit goes thru. The voters did vote for "leave" and my colleagues were wondering if I would really eat my socks. However, I told them this would never get passed thru the parliament. They will dilly dally, drag it along and dump it in the end saying it's too complicated. To solve any equation, just follow the money. Big business stand t…

!RemindMe 29 March 2019
Post reply on HN