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Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

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Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#71
post #50
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't like Google Maps and I deleted it. Now I can't see the map! i mean, is it common for a user to hold contradictory thoughts like that?!

I see you've never worked a helpdesk. :) (Depressingly, yes. PEBKAC is the most common diagnosis and people get really angry about it.)

For those curious:

PEBKAC == "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair",

means you, the user, are the cause of the issue, not the hardware or the software

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#72
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view, Google is far worse. The company took entire internet and bent it to its advantage. It has monopolized search and delivery of information, and it has monopoly on digital advertising. It’s actually destroying creation of content online, because there is no money left to creators, such as journalists, bloggers, etc. There is a reason why The Guardian has donate button under its articles: it’s one of the man…

When were "journalists, bloggers, etc." ever making money by creating content online? I don't think Google has anything to do with them having a big problem doing this successfully.

Journalism as a profession has historically made money for its practitioners.

There are plenty of factors to evaluate. For one, the sheer number of people who can now engage in the practice of journalism, formally or informally, much less call themselves journalists, has massively expanded. You don't need a printing press to get published.

The question is, if they aren't making money on their work, is anybody? Does Google not profit off the content created by others online, for example?

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#73

I’m a bit concerned about how much data Google has on me and I do think Apple is genuinely more concerned about user privacy. But what’s the difference in practical terms really? Google uses my data to target ads at me but doesn’t actually give any of my data to its ad-buying customers. Apple doesn’t do this but is obliged to turn over my iCloud data to the government with a subpoena. Since this is really the scenari…

Depends on what you are worried about. The book (if I understand the review correctly) is concerned not just with loss of privacy, but with how your personal data can be used to modify your behavior.

Quoting from the review:

> “The goal of everything we do is to change people’s actual behavior at scale,” a top Silicon Valley data scientist told her in an interview. “We can test how actionable our cues are for them and how profitable certain behaviors are for us.”

So both Google and Apple vacuum up your data, and both are required to comply with lawful governmental requests, but only one of these companies makes money from your data by selling your attention to those who would modify your behavior. (For now).

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#74
post #37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you think the market is wrong about the value of advertising? if you have tried online advertising perhaps you know how terribly inefficient it can be.

Low price means a lot of competitors and cheap to be made. High price means expensive to make or scarcity. Market is right, but price has little to do with how easy it is to convince people. Mineral watter is cheap and it is not because it is not valuable. It is because there is ton of it and if you sell it expensively, I will buy cheaper one.

this isn't about the price of ads however, but about the total amount spent on advertising compared to gdp

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#75
post #66

> Without permission, without compensation, and with little in the way of resistance, the company seized and declared ownership over everyone’s information. No, Google has permission - it's given when you click I Agree in Android, or when you sign up for a Google account, or when you continue to use a website that has a 'terms of use' page.

And with compensation too. Barter is compensation.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#76
> Surveillance capitalism’s real products, vaporous but immensely valuable, are predictions about our future behavior

Enough of the juvenile hyperbole. Facebook nor Google sells future predictions of users. Facebook’s customers are advertisers. They sell ad placement. Thats a fact, not an opinion or analysis. Why should anyone take criticisms of Facebook seriously from people who don’t understand how Facebook even makes money?

They sell ads. There is nothing wrong or illegal about showing ads on a website.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#77

I’m a bit concerned about how much data Google has on me and I do think Apple is genuinely more concerned about user privacy. But what’s the difference in practical terms really? Google uses my data to target ads at me but doesn’t actually give any of my data to its ad-buying customers. Apple doesn’t do this but is obliged to turn over my iCloud data to the government with a subpoena. Since this is really the scenari…

I honestly don’t believe Apple is much more concerned- I think they’ve seen the negative sentiment towards FB and Google and have decided to seize the moment by highlighting that they are a hardware company, which they’ve always been. It’s easy to preserve privacy when you make most of your money selling luxury hardware.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#78
post #36
post #4

"Anyone who tries to remove a pre-installed Google app from an Android phone, for instance, will likely be confronted by a vague but menacing warning: “If you disable this app, other apps may no longer function as intended.” This is a coy, high-tech form of blackmail: “Give us your data, or the phone dies.” They're bluffing. Turning off Google Drive, Google Duo, Google Gmail, Google Play Movies and TV, Google Play Mo…

Don't overestimate the customer. "I don't like Google Maps and I deleted it. Now I can't see the map! Fix it now!" "I see. There are competing map services available." "That's not the map I want. I want the map!(Google Maps)" "You can use a browser." "Browser? What is it? I simply want to use map!" "If you really wan to use the Google Maps from the app. Then you have to install the app called Google Maps" "I don't un…

This is sad, true, hilarious, and depressing all at the same time!

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#79
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do people pay to use Linux or DuckDuckGo? This statement is parroted so much and adds so little to every discussion.

Aren't you the product on DDG? Like they still sell ads and do marketing. Just less invasively than Google. An argument could also be made for Linux, that the users are the product. Like why does all this development get done on Linux? Because people use it. Why do companies choose Linux on their servers? Cause all the users that know it. Sure, you're not getting exploited on these platforms, which is awesome, but th…

I'm not arguing whether or not those services actually "make you the product", I'm just railing against this annoying rhetoric that "being free" in itself somehow makes a service exploitative.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#80
Terms of Service are really out of control, and probably need a democratic checkup. One cannot sign away constitutional rights, which means somewhere there is a line to draw.

When is a company abusing it's first amendment rights and dangerously coercing behavior, a la "yelling fire in theater"? At scale, this doesn't have to be explicitly extreme or violent to have actual extreme or violent effects.

When is it going too far against illegal search, by using technology that transcends physical, or psychic, boundaries?

When, really, have they crossed over your right to privacy, by accurately inferring very personal and private details you didn't share, from details you did?

I wonder what would happen if people flipped the script. Send Google a letter, stating your new ToS: "Your continued use of my data is $legalese, and if you don't reply with "no thanks", you agree to remit $dollars to me Monthly." If they don't respond, this is your new operating agreement.

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