221–230 of 1001 posts
Err, that was Ned Stark who said that, not Jon Snow.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Theresa May was initially against building a submarine out of cheese, obviously. Because it’s a completely insane thing to do. Leaving the EU is not a completely insane thing to do. The UK (and many other countries) have legitimate grievances about some things the EU is foisting on them (immigration for example) and the EU is giving them the cold shoulder and fining them if they don't comply. Labelling people who ar…
If you want access to the single market, you have to sign up to freedom of movement. The UK was never going to be able to have one without the other because it's a fundamental principle of the EU as an institution. It's a package deal.
> ...
> It's a package deal.
how do you explain the existence of the EU-Canada deal where Canada has essentially complete tariff free access to the EU's Single Market without freedom of movement?
here's the commission's factsheet on it: http://ec.europa.eu/trade/images/infographics/ceta-explained...
I'll be the first to admit: I'm an American. I fundamentally do not understand Brexit. I understand the following timeline: 1. A largely disseminated, nation-wide vote occurs, bolstered by nationalist sentiment, that the EU is bad for the UK. This vote results in a conclusion that UK should leave the EU. 2. This is controversial, due to the majority of the populace in general not desiring to leave the EU, but not vot…
Essentially, they want to honor the will of the people. The will of the people, by democratic vote, was to leave the EU.
With that in mind, they have no options that are in any way good:
1) Push ahead and exit with no-deal (economically disastrous)
2) Push ahead and exit with the proposed deal (economically bad while also not really exiting)
3) Declare it a bad idea and just don't do it (political suicide for everyone involved & creates distrust in democratic process)
4) Hold another referendum where it's going to have to be a decision between staying in or exiting with no deal (also political suicide & creates distrust).
There's no way for anyone to win here. I think the best option is for the PM to "take one for the team" (i.e. the country) and take option 3/4, knowing that it will be the end of her and her party.
Here's what happens next: - A motion of no confidence has been tabled and will be debated and voted on tomorrow - If the motion carries (i.e. the Government loses): 1. Theresa May must resign as Prime Minister 2. There can be a 14 day window in which a new government is formed, which must be approved by a motion of confidence. This is likely to be waived 3. There will be a general election. Theresa May will remain le…
So, the decision making is kept as hostage by 17m angry people who won't accept that their side winning was based on pretty much fraudulent arguments? Maybe, just maybe, it could be in the long run worth paying the price of their anger and show that the modern democratic society has some backbone against these kind of people?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the size of the voting margin is somewhat irrelevant in a properly functioning democracy Literally, no. The size of the margin is a direct factor in many democratic processes and determines how resilient the decision is to subsequent challenge. Major, foundational changes are rarely decided by simple majorities in one event. > You don't get a re-do just because you didn't like the outcome. To say otherwise opens yo…
Literally yes. Some elections right here in the US are decided by as few as a dozen votes, and people accept the results. > You just called some referendums "bullshit" You're putting words in my mouth Cathy Newman style here.
There is a reason that it takes 2/3 of the Senate to ratify international agreements, and 3/4 of the states to change the constitution. Brexit is a constitutional change.
Of course it "failed". The government did everything it could to sabotage it and arrive at as unfavorable a set of exit conditions as possible. Even if she did want to get a good deal, May doesn't strike me as a cutthroat negotiator. Couple this with her unwillingness to abide by the will of the people (the size of the voting margin is somewhat irrelevant in a properly functioning democracy), and you get this. This w…
Yeah you do; it's the foundation of a democracy. It's why we have such frequent elections.
It feels like the country is roughly divided into 3 equal bits: * Leave EU quickly, at any cost * Don’t really mind either way, as long as economy is stable * Stay in EU The one in the middle doesn’t trust either of the others. So nobody can get a majority, whether we have another referendum or a general election. So this shitstorm will just go on and on.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Theresa May was initially against building a submarine out of cheese, obviously. Because it’s a completely insane thing to do. Leaving the EU is not a completely insane thing to do. The UK (and many other countries) have legitimate grievances about some things the EU is foisting on them (immigration for example) and the EU is giving them the cold shoulder and fining them if they don't comply. Labelling people who ar…
If you want access to the single market, you have to sign up to freedom of movement. The UK was never going to be able to have one without the other because it's a fundamental principle of the EU as an institution. It's a package deal.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
He was an MP, is still a MEP, and cofounded a party that once commanded "major party" status and nearly 20% of the vote in 2014. He's clearly representing some folks.
He's never been a MP, UKIP has never been considered a "major party" (how is this even defined?), there was no election in 2014, UKIP won 12.6% in 2015. He's clearly representing some people but your facts are way off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_United_Kingdom_local_elec...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_elect...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Independence_Party#Entering... "In March 2014, Ofcom awarded UKIP "major party status"."
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-rele... "Ofcom’s initial view is that UKIP may qualify for major party status in England and Wales for the General Election and English local elections on 7 May 2015."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31906154 "Ofcom says UKIP, but not Greens, are 'major party'"
