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U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#111

Post by toufiqbarhamov »

jstplanecurious wrote: post #89
toufiqbarhamov wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the ground? To an extent, but it would be expensive to deploy and maintain. On the drone? No, you’re adding weight and reducing available power.

I thought iancmceachern asked a really good question. I was curious if it could work even theoretically. I read the Wikipedia article on Active Noise Control. The third paragraph under Explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control#Explanati... mentions that if it's at the source, it needs to be just as loud as the source (as opposed to being by the ear, in which case even a whisper might be enough).…

Not impossible, just impractical unless silence is incredibly important. If you want a quiet helicopter then you do what you can to reduce the noise signiture, then you might consider destructive interference. You wouldn’t use speakers, but that’s not the only way to produce a noise. In fact a clever country might even figure out how to use an arrangement of blades and fans designed to produce noise in such a way that it tends to cancel out the loudest contributions to the signature.

Buuuut... that’s not really viable for anything civilian or even commercial.

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#112

Post by toufiqbarhamov »

mikeash wrote: post #92
toufiqbarhamov wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh sure, but the glider is moving through the air at a stately pace (generally between 50-95mph), shedding vortices without anything coming behind them to crash into them. A prop operates at much higher speeds, typically between 450-720mph!

Really? I arbitrarily looked up the DJI Phantom 3 and found a max RPM of about 8000 with a prop diameter of 9 inches, which gives a tip speed of about 200 MPH at the most. That’s still pretty fast, of course. That points to using bigger props as a potential way to cut noise.

You’re right, I was looking at max motor rpm, whoops!

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#113

Post by clay_the_ripper »

brokenmachine wrote: post #110
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! My biggest single complaint about drones is the noise. I also own and fly a drone (for professional photography and video work) but I am LOATHE to fly that thing when anyone else is around. It’s just so dang annoying. As a drone owner, it drives me bananas when I see people just flying them all over the place with no account for how irritating the noise is. If drones could be made substantially quieter, everyone…

I honestly wish all drone owners were as considerate as you sound. Unfortunately, anecdotally I'd have to say that the majority are not considerate.

Yeah that’s the dream alright. So many of them are so incredibly inconsiderate that it gives the rest of us a bad name.

I’m legitimately too embarrassed to fly it around anyone because of how incredibly inconsiderate your average hobbyist is. Even though I actually have a reason to fly it (I get paid).

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#114

Post by abakker »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #66
cronix wrote: post #41

One thing the drones really need to do before being deployed en masse (besides safety) is to become relatively silent. They are quite loud. I can hear a single one from about 1/2 mile away. I can't imagine what it will be like if many are flying all over, at all times. It will be like everybody is living next to an airport - something I consciously choose to not live close to due to noise pollution. Quality of life w…

Tangent: I don’t think I’ve ever been more incensed than when I learned Harley Davidsons are quiet out of the factory and people make them loud. And while I can get a ticket for something trivial, I’ve never heard of someone getting a ticket for riding a motorcycle or car that’s obnoxiously loud and can be heard a mile away. My point, I guess, cities, townships, what have you, don’t care about noise.

FWIW, California changed the minimum ticket for noise violations on vehicles to $1000 this year. They are apparently cracking down on it, as they have abolished the “fix it ticket” that used to allow the vehicle to be repaired and then the ticket is commuted. Now, the officer must fine you.

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#115

Post by chaostheory »

reaperducer wrote: post #74
chaostheory wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy efficient buildings tend to handle noise pollution better with their extra insulation. Not ideal, but there's always a solution.

Energy efficient buildings tend to handle noise pollution better with their extra insulation. Not ideal, but there's always a solution. Translation: "You go inside if you want peace and quiet. The outside is only for the self-entitled now."

I'm speaking from experience. I live next to an airport. Also unlike an airport, if drones are being used for deliveries to residences, only hermits will be 'entitled'.

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#116

Post by chaostheory »

eftychis wrote: post #65
chaostheory wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy efficient buildings tend to handle noise pollution better with their extra insulation. Not ideal, but there's always a solution.

I don't think it is a good idea for the sanity of people to tell them to stay inside and have really good sound insulation. We have to remember that sound pollution is a health issue and impacts people's lives. I have my doubts how efficient insulation one can get against air traffic -- from personal experience, it doesn't work.

I'm speaking from experience, and I didn't intend to sound patronizing. I live really close to an airport. Have been for years. Lived in my home both before and after energy efficient improvements e.g. triple pane windows, more insulation, roofing, stormdoor, ... It works. If NIMBY lobbying fails, you have to take into account all tools available including smart earphones.

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#117

Post by fourTimes »

cronix wrote: post #41

One thing the drones really need to do before being deployed en masse (besides safety) is to become relatively silent. They are quite loud. I can hear a single one from about 1/2 mile away. I can't imagine what it will be like if many are flying all over, at all times. It will be like everybody is living next to an airport - something I consciously choose to not live close to due to noise pollution. Quality of life w…

  helicopters with 4x the number of blades
I mean, what’s the difference between a helicopter with four blades, versus the same helicopter by with only one blade, but four times the size?

Except a full scale helicopter blade is easily 100 times larger.

So they are helicopters, but 100 times smaller, but with four blades.

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#118

Post by alexis_fr »

mikeash wrote: post #79
mediaman wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both propellers and wings are fundamentally the same thing: airfoils. However, air passes over a propeller much, much faster than over a wing, and creates shock waves in a way that wings don't.

Does it? The same airfoil needs the same speed to provide a given amount of lift, regardless of whether it’s a wing or a propellor.

The speed of a propeller is low close to the rotor, and sometimes faster than sound at the extremity of the blades. Can’t reduce sound on that.

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#119

Post by learc83 »

masonic wrote: post #105
learc83 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On any given day, for most of the year, there's a good chance that someone in earshot of me is running a lawnmower, a string trimmer, or a leaf blower, all of which are louder than a drone. There's also a guy down the road who regularly leaves his loud diesel truck idling, motorcycles going down the road, and occasional jets flying overhead. All of this annoys the hell out of me, but no one else seems to care. Certai…

a lawnmower, a string trimmer, or a leaf blower All of these are used in daytime almost exclusively.

We're talking about replacing/supplementing residential delivery trucks, which don't run at night.

Re: U.S. proposes to allow drone operation at night, over people

#120

Post by bigmattystyles »

abakker wrote: post #114
bigmattystyles wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: I don’t think I’ve ever been more incensed than when I learned Harley Davidsons are quiet out of the factory and people make them loud. And while I can get a ticket for something trivial, I’ve never heard of someone getting a ticket for riding a motorcycle or car that’s obnoxiously loud and can be heard a mile away. My point, I guess, cities, townships, what have you, don’t care about noise.

FWIW, California changed the minimum ticket for noise violations on vehicles to $1000 this year. They are apparently cracking down on it, as they have abolished the “fix it ticket” that used to allow the vehicle to be repaired and then the ticket is commuted. Now, the officer must fine you.

This is fantastic news!
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