Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 78 posts

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#51

Post by techtalsky »

fsfsdff56sdf wrote: post #38
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worrying about looks is not a choice if it has real consequences on your career, especially when young. Women are especially pressured to maintain their appearance along many axises that are difficult to manage. This pressure presumably fades as one gets older according to the writer.

Citation needed. I know many not so pretty women in successful careers.

Your anecdotal experience isn't an effective counterpoint though. Here's a citation in the neighborhood: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/12/05/americans-see-diff...

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#52

Post by refurb »

sctb wrote: post #21
porpoisely wrote: post #19

Couldn't you write this stuff of anything? Ultimately, isn't it just empty rationalizations that we all have to go through as we grow old or what we do given any situation? What the fox in Aesop's story did when he could get at the grapes? Just rationalize and move on. People can write the "Joy of Being in Prison", the "Joy of Being Homeless", the "Joy of Impotence", the "Joy of Losing Your Limbs", etc. But is that r…

Couldn't you write this comment about anything? > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I didn't find the comment shallow. Shallow would be "what a dumb article".

That said, what the OP calls "rationalization" could just as well be "perspective".

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#53

Post by jgladch »

BigHatLogan wrote: post #44

This was a good read. It resonated with me because I've been noticing this happening with my mother and father as they get older. I hate to say it like this, but I used to think that my mother was sort of a "simple person" (I can't think of a better word) because she used to tell my brother and I to try to be happy with what we have, to try to enjoy the small things in life, and to try to be appreciative of the thing…

great post!

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#54

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #50
porpoisely wrote: post #19

Couldn't you write this stuff of anything? Ultimately, isn't it just empty rationalizations that we all have to go through as we grow old or what we do given any situation? What the fox in Aesop's story did when he could get at the grapes? Just rationalize and move on. People can write the "Joy of Being in Prison", the "Joy of Being Homeless", the "Joy of Impotence", the "Joy of Losing Your Limbs", etc. But is that r…

Plus what 80-115 year old will dispute her claims?

My grandfather oscillates between depressed silence and complaining about wishing he was dead, so at least one person I know of.

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#55

Post by ulber »

cco wrote: post #32
agumonkey wrote: post #27

> There is an amazing calculus in old age. As much is taken away, we find more to love and appreciate. We experience bliss on a regular basis. As one friend said: “When I was young I needed sexual ecstasy or a hike to the top of a mountain to experience bliss. Now I can feel it when I look at a caterpillar on my garden path.” This makes me wonder how much teenage/adulthood is a layer of stress onto our brains. A very…

Gazing at caterpillars on a garden path does not generally lead to passing along your genes. Impatience and a craving for intensity does often lead to passing along your genes, I think the calculus is pretty straight forward.

I think you are probably approximately correct (although a relaxed outlook might lead to helping your grandchildren thrive, thus passing on your genes).

However, your comment could be actionable in a number of ways, for example:

1. "You should embrace the intensity to make sure you reproduce."

2. "You should understand the source of that intensity as something that might oppose your goal of happiness."

3. "You should accept the biological inevitability of that intensity."

I'm partial to number 2. Even if the calculus of reproduction is straight forward, how that should inform your life choices is not.

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#56

Post by Volundr »

Uhhrrr wrote: post #42
code_duck wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says arranging for reproductive partners has to involve intensity? If everyone was equally relaxed...

Then they'd get out-reproduced by the occasional mutant, until the current state of affairs would reappear.

Would they though? I'm sure everyone has met someone at some point who has come on far too strong (or observed it) and it can be quite a turnoff. That "high intensity" mutant could have a very hard time finding partners.

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#57

Post by toasterlovin »

ulber wrote: post #55
cco wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gazing at caterpillars on a garden path does not generally lead to passing along your genes. Impatience and a craving for intensity does often lead to passing along your genes, I think the calculus is pretty straight forward.

I think you are probably approximately correct (although a relaxed outlook might lead to helping your grandchildren thrive, thus passing on your genes). However, your comment could be actionable in a number of ways, for example: 1. "You should embrace the intensity to make sure you reproduce." 2. "You should understand the source of that intensity as something that might oppose your goal of happiness." 3. "You should…

FWIW, I've found that viewing bringing children into this world as a kind of higher calling has done a pretty good job of counteracting the daily stresses of raising children.

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#58

Post by steve_adams_86 »

fsfsdff56sdf wrote: post #33

"Most of us don’t miss the male gaze. It came with catcalls, harassment and unwanted attention. Instead, we feel free from the tyranny of worrying about our looks. For the first time since we were 10, we can feel relaxed about our appearance." I call bullshit. People spend Billions to become more attractive, and rarely anything to become less attractive. If these women would have suffered so much from the "male gaze"…

This logic appears to presume that women are responsible for changing themselves in order to avoid being mistreated, and that their desire to change their looks is at all intended to draw catcalls, harassment, and unwanted attention.

I understand wearing makeup (for example) is an external thing meant for other people to see, but it's reckless and illogical to go down the path of assuming who the makeup is for and why it's worn. It's also unfair to say they should or could have taken steps to change themselves in order to solve a problem unfairly imposed upon them by other people.

If a farmer has problems with raccoons eating their crops, would you ever suggest they should simply destroy their crop fields to make the land less appealing to raccoons?

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#59

Post by fsfsdff56sdf »

techtalsky wrote: post #51
fsfsdff56sdf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. I know many not so pretty women in successful careers.

Your anecdotal experience isn't an effective counterpoint though. Here's a citation in the neighborhood: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/12/05/americans-see-diff...

What does "society values" mean, though? These women in their 70ies supposedly don't care about being attractive. So the only thing that matters is could they get decent jobs if they were unattractive. They supposedly don't care about societies evaluation of their attractiveness anyway.

And we were talking about "pressure to be attractive". What form does that take. What happens to you if you are unattractive?

Re: Joy of Being a Woman in Her 70s

#60

Post by fsfsdff56sdf »

techtalsky wrote: post #49
fsfsdff56sdf wrote: post #33

"Most of us don’t miss the male gaze. It came with catcalls, harassment and unwanted attention. Instead, we feel free from the tyranny of worrying about our looks. For the first time since we were 10, we can feel relaxed about our appearance." I call bullshit. People spend Billions to become more attractive, and rarely anything to become less attractive. If these women would have suffered so much from the "male gaze"…

It's actually really common for women who have experienced sexual assault to take steps (gaining weight, wearing loose baggy clothing) to avoid the male gaze.

Numbers please? How common is it (percentage of women)?
Post reply on HN