China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row • Hacker News Board

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#141

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #121

foldr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been through many times as white British person (both as a visitor and on various visas) and have never had a bad experience. I'm not denying that people do have bad experiences. But I find it kind of hard to believe that as a US citizen, you've never once had an experience of re-entering the country that didn't involve the customs agent asking you a couple of simple questions and then sending you on your way.

Since they have to let US citizens in, you likely don’t have to answer questions unrelated to the goods you’re bringing back. But the pressure is obviously there to answer anyway.

They have to let US citizens in, but they can detain you for a reasonable amount of time while they investigate you, which could be days. They also don’t have to let your stuff in. If you don’t answer their questions, you are very likely to get into the country late and without your possessions, so only do this as a last resort.

(This is in contrast to interacting with police within the country, where they can’t search your stuff against your will or hold you without probable cause, and not answering questions is a good default.)

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#142

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #137

mikeash wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any country where it is not somewhat common for foreigners to work there illegally without being punished, and also for those foreign workers to occasionally get caught and deported for it?

That's not my point. The point is that in a country like China following the law as written is not a defense, and it's likely not even possible. Your best bet is to keep your head down and follow common practices.

Is your point that her failure to comply with work visa rules was actually the right thing to do, and thus her punishment for it is unfair?

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#143

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #83

Nasrudith wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the sarcastic and cynical inversion - referring to gangs as baby governments. Historically that isn't wrong given that strongmen charging protection fees (by consent or coercion) and making an example of any "bandits" harming his income by robbing them or harming their paying subjects. This creates the monopoly on violence and things can progress from there for better or worse. Given an apocalyptic coll…

people really don't like this line of argument on HN. I am curious to find out why.

[deleted]

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#144

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #120

ferrolho wrote: post #95

Does anyone actually know the reasons behind Meng's arrest?

They're fairly easy to find out with a simple Google search. The tl;dr is the US government claims she lied to HSBC and other banks in a way that caused them to unwittingly violate US and UN sanctions against Iran.

[deleted]

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#145

Post by yukonbound » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

dpratt wrote: post #84

bauhw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of the tourism in China is domestic. Foreigner shouldn't have white cards on the law because of tourism, that's arrogant and unhealthy. I was afraid of China because of these random news. But when I finally went there in September, I was surprised as all the internet fear mongering was wrong. When you read your local newspaper and see a murder, are you afraid to go out ? No because it's an outlier, as is the case…

Your account is three minutes old and this is your first (and only) comment. Additionally, your grammar indicates that you’re not a native English speaker. I’m not typically a tinfoil hat type of person, but I, at least, have a heavy amount of skepticism towards your comment. Bluntly, it reads like it was taken directly from some pre-approved list of PRC propaganda.

I don’t know. His english mistakes are very plausible just typical French grammar mistakes and his viewpoint is not incorrect and in fact most likely true for the overwhelming majority of visitors. Perhaps the tin foil is sitting a bit tightly...

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#146

Post by perlpimp » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:41 PM UTC

you could be imprisoned if in china police raid an expat bar and deported and in light of current events jailed and persecuted if police find traces of THC in your blood. They do raid expat bars regularly just to do this.

so really - reconsider going to china if you've been using any of recreational drugs in last while.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#147

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:41 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #138

abbe_k wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think there is a big difference between 15 years in prison and the death penalty? You still have a lot of time left in life after 15 years so it is major difference.

Perhaps as somebody who travels in China, apologizing for China in this way makes him feel safer?

Pointing out that this case does not influence a rational evaluation of the risk/reward of travel to China is hardly “apologizing for China.”

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#148

Post by chillacy » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:41 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #136

leetcrew wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you had to use the qualifier "proper" four times in that comment, to the point where it's basically a no true scotsman argument. the "proper government" you describe is a pretty specific kind that has really only existed at scale in the west for a few hundred years. states in the rest of the world and through most of history seem to satisfy most of your criteria for gangs. i admit it's a silly argument to claim there…

Of course I used proper numerous times, it was pre-emptive. I did that on purpose, because it's pointing to the ideal. If I just said government generically, someone would chime in and point out Stalin or North Korea etc. and then declare my entire point to be wrong due to worst case examples. It does favor Western constitutional systems, they have worked very well overall and they're overwhelmingly and objectively s…

Didn't korea develop as a military dictatorship (taiwan too) and only pivot to a western style system only after it found economic stability?

An alternative way of looking at it might be: western style governments work best in countries with an existing economic base. A western government hasn't done so hot in India or the middle east: it's not a panacea.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#149

Post by learc83 » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #79

smcl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that tourism is as much of a big deal to China as you think, and additionally I've got a feeling that most potential tourists wouldn't be aware of this news item or could dismiss it as "those people probably did something stupid, it won't apply to me"

But this doesn't apply to just tourists, this applies to all foreign visitors including the business people who drive Chinese economy. If the business people start avoiding China, there impact on it's already slowing economy would be devastating.

From what I've heard, in the last few years, China has become much more hostile towards foreigners living in China, and the government has significantly turned up the anti-foreigner rhetoric.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#150

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

j1vms wrote: post #129

mikeash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

> ... at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. There isn't a huge difference between a death sentence versus 15 years in prison? You're kidding right? Whether the person is in fact guilty or innocent, there is a significant difference between the two sentences, literally the difference between life or death. One irrevocably extinguishes the person's life - there is no going ba…

The context of this statement is in deciding whether or not to travel to China. I am having a very hard time coming up with a scenario where the possibility of a 15-year prison sentence has me deciding to go, but the possibility of execution makes me decide to stay home.