Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 226 posts

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#91

Post by fermienrico »

mdpopescu wrote: post #49
fermienrico wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d take a step deeper and realize that this is glorified tribalism that’s stuck in humans. We evolved into a civilized species but the idea of territorial tribalism is embedded deep into our very psyche.

Yeah, but it can be fought. I was never a nationalist, but I didn't realize how ingrained a lot of habits are until I started traveling through Europe. I've once read that "weirdoes start 10 miles from home" - well, it's not that bad but it's still amazing to realize that yes, people in different countries are still people.

I think it can be fought on an individualist level but difficult as it goes against the grain with political objectives and nationalist motifs. It’s so deeply engrained - see 1985 UN speech by Jiddu Krishnamurthy. It was a real eye-opener but everyone goes back to normality the next day.

Tribalism is very active and impossible to get rid of in my view unless something totally disruptive happens (Alien invasion at which point we will engage in interplanetary tribalism).

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#93

Post by yorwba »

gpm wrote: post #47
mikeash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

He was a convicted drug dealer, that's little comfort when other people like the random teacher [0] and entrepreneur [1] they arrested were not. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-sarah-mciver-detained... [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-officials-meet-wit...

According to your link, the teacher was employed illegally. It's common for students and other people without work permits to be offered positions as English teachers where the only requirement is being born in North America. The employers usually gloss over the illegality or claim that the laws are not enforced. That's been true in the past, but as that teacher had to learn, it can change anytime.

So my generalized advice is to comply with the law instead of relying on lack of enforcement. They can still get you for "national security" reasons, but it's much less likely if you aren't a big fish.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#94

Post by AnaniasAnanas »

korvighua wrote: post #72
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

Related links: Thirteen Canadians have been detained in China since Huawei executive’s arrest, says Ottawa https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-thirteen-ca... China says detained Canadian Michael Kovrig doesn't have diplomatic immunity https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-says-detained-canadian-m... You shouldn't be going to a country where they don't even respect diplomatic immunity

I don't really understand how diplomatic immunity is relevant here. It's not like it is going to protect you if you are not a diplomat.

Plus, if I am not mistaken Michael Kovrig is not a diplomat so saying that china does not respect diplomatic immunity seems baseless.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#96

Post by bloopbloop »

korvighua wrote: post #72
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

Related links: Thirteen Canadians have been detained in China since Huawei executive’s arrest, says Ottawa https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-thirteen-ca... China says detained Canadian Michael Kovrig doesn't have diplomatic immunity https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-says-detained-canadian-m... You shouldn't be going to a country where they don't even respect diplomatic immunity

Travelling to a country in a private capacity, with a private passport does not grant diplomatic immunity.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#97

Post by adventured »

mikeash wrote: post #65
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very uncommon opinion.

Is it really? It seems pretty widely accepted that the death penalty doesn’t deter crime, for example, which indicates that people (well, potential criminals, anyway) don’t see it as substantially worse than a lengthy prison term.

It's a fascinating point that the pro death penalty crowd universally ignores.

US violent crime has plunged over the last 40 years, and the murder rate has been chopped in half since 1980, all the while death sentences have declined to ~45-50 year lows (there has been roughly a 90% reduction in new death sentences since 1999). The dramatic plunge in new death sentences over two decades hasn't coincided with any uptick in the murder rate or violent crime.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#98

Post by dsfyu404ed »

adventured wrote: post #36
leetcrew wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at risk of sounding like an edgy libertarian, what do you think is the difference between a government and a gang with internal rules?

Properly governments operate by the consent of those they govern. Gangs rule territory and the people within it almost strictly by violence. The closest similar in governments is a dictatorship, which must rule by the constant arbitrary application of violence to keep people terrified. A proper government operates by the peaceful consent - representative government, democratic systems, constitutional rights protectio…

You're describing how a functioning society with a functioning government works in a textbook. In reality it might not be all the way at the "gang" end of the spectrum but I assure you it is closer to that extreme than your comment appears to place it.

There's a lot of gang-like behavior once you scratch the surface. It's just more diverse and indirect than using violence against people who don't respect your authority. When person from department A tells person from department B to shove it department A doesn't send thugs to beat them up, they simply make sure that the friends and relatives of the person from department B get stonewalled in any interaction with department A.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#99

Post by simonh »

mikeash wrote: post #65
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very uncommon opinion.

Is it really? It seems pretty widely accepted that the death penalty doesn’t deter crime, for example, which indicates that people (well, potential criminals, anyway) don’t see it as substantially worse than a lengthy prison term.

It's not about which is worse either though. The implicit calculation is: If I get caught, will the punishment deter me.

But (approximately) nobody commits a crime on the assumption they will get caught, so it pretty much doesn't matter what the punishment is. The way to move the needle is to change the assumption about getting caught. The closer that tends towards guaranteed, the less chance people will even make above calculation in the first place.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#100

Post by [deleted] »

mengxue wrote: post #9

Ren Zhengfei’s first wife was Meng Jun (the mother of Meng wan Zhou), the daughter of the former Sichuan Provincial Vice Governor Meng Dongbo. Meng Dongpo served as deputy secretary general of the East China Military and Political Committee. Director of the Infrastructure Department of the Ministry of Metallurgy, Director of the Metallurgical Industry Department of Sichuan Province, Director of the Provincial Economi…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN