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Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

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Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#131
post #3

I wonder if dark web markets will ever establish a comprehensive alternative parcel system... that seems like the natural, final extension of these ideas. The technical challenges to this would of course be significant (I'll refrain from listing them and suggesting potential workarounds since I don't really want to give anybody any specific ideas on this LOL)

> I wonder if dark web markets will ever establish a comprehensive alternative parcel system...

The Trystero!

Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#132
post #121

Dead drop based drug distribution doesn’t scale to retail levels. It is used in Moscow and I know of people who will order from a dealer, then search the surrounding area and clear out all the drops they find. It works for them, although one questions the sanity of stealing from Russian drug dealers. For more practical guides on how people who sell drugs avoid the negative repercussions: • AlpraKing’s business guide…

some really great links thanks!

>although one questions the sanity of stealing from Russian drug dealers.

I'd conjecture that the value of the booty would be quite limited too? (small envelopes not kilograms exchanging hands). A smack-head probably wouldn't care about the risks just as long as they get their next fix?

EDIT: "4. Don't hire people under 30 years old" that is great advise. You want Mike Ehrmantraut like characters (from "Better call Saul") ... btw that show was consistently good in OpSec lessons (unlike the parent show "Breaking Bad").

Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#134

My biggest problem with using the Darknet, messaging apps, or old school methods such as dial a dope or hitting up the guy on the street corner to buy drugs is the same. How can I really trust someone willing to break the rules and sell drugs or other non legal goods? You lay down with dogs you get fleas!! Last thing I would want is to eat, smoke or snort something from someone I have never met even if they have a 5…

If something is illegal, it does not follow that it is also immoral. You may actually deal with a very moral person.

If something is illegal, it operates outside of the law and therefore lacks the normal protections which the law affords consumers. It has nothing to do with morality.

Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#135

My biggest problem with using the Darknet, messaging apps, or old school methods such as dial a dope or hitting up the guy on the street corner to buy drugs is the same. How can I really trust someone willing to break the rules and sell drugs or other non legal goods? You lay down with dogs you get fleas!! Last thing I would want is to eat, smoke or snort something from someone I have never met even if they have a 5…

Yeah, drugs can be cut with some horrible things. The worst offenders are dealers at large events e.g. festivals where they easily get away with selling drugs cut with (inert at best, toxic at worst) adulterants to increase volume and still sold at great markup.

This is one of the reasons I hugely support legalized drug testing, and having law enforcement keep out of the way of drug testing orgs, because it's a public health risk.

Reagent testing kits are pretty easy for the individual consumer to buy (legally) and test their substances with before use.

In the UK, the charity The Loop is making great strides with testing and harm-reduction awareness, they've been running stalls at large festivals for a few years now and have a few permanent centers in large cities. When they discover drugs being sold with dangerous adulterants, they make it known on social media, and relay the info to paramedics and welfare. Has definitely saved a few lives!

Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#136
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely. It just decentralizes distribution and dealing - bulk darkweb drugs still end up in the hands of street resellers.

At the moment that's how it works. If it's true that things are moving in to telegram and other encrypted chat platforms then it could change. It makes it simple enough for the average person to do.

Telegram isn't anymore encrypted than Skype by default.

Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#137
post #61
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All they do is send you a “love letter” and people have reported receiving future packages just fine. well, that's what the end user sees, but we can't pretend to know what happens behind the scenes from a data perspective, and how that data might be used in the future. > They require a court order to open your package and even then can’t charge anyone with possession. this is not true. only first-class mail (13oz…

> 4. Can Postal Inspectors open mail if they feel it may contain something illegal? First-Class letters and parcels are protected against search and seizure under the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, and, as such, cannot be opened without a search warrant. If there is probable cause to believe the contents of a First-Class letter or parcel violate federal law, Postal Inspectors can obtain a search warrant to ope…

Postal Inspectors have some strange powers (read up about Comstock laws) - also in the UK BT Security (aka SD or IB) inherited quasi legal powers from its days as part of the post office - you did not want to be investigated by them.

Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#138
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All they do is send you a “love letter” and people have reported receiving future packages just fine. well, that's what the end user sees, but we can't pretend to know what happens behind the scenes from a data perspective, and how that data might be used in the future. > They require a court order to open your package and even then can’t charge anyone with possession. this is not true. only first-class mail (13oz…

13oz is well over what casual users order for most drugs. I'd bet the vast majority of orders are under that size.

It depends heavily on the stealth used; a distributor could easily put a small quantity of drugs in a cheap object that weighs several pounds.

Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#139
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's a great story, but machine vision + machine learning + surveillance could pull the rug out from the dropgangs market in a second. But really, other than this fatal flaw, it's a great narrative of the internet spilling into and interfacing with analog markets

Employ and build trust with a tight circle of local homeless folk, establish delivery methods which circumvent surveillance such as on-foot delivery, chained drops, multiple couriers, etc. Some distribution networks currently employ such methods. It will always be a game of cat and mouse.

Homeless have nothing to lose and everything to gain, busted

Re: Dropgangs, or the future of darknet markets

#140
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war on drug has to be one of the top contributors and financiers of crime and criminal gangs. Imagine a world where criminal gangs don't have access to the money they make through drugs and a government that doesn't have to spend huge amount of money on drug laws enforcement because drug trafficking would be much less lucrative in the existence of legal access and you get fewer and very cash-strapped drug gangs,…

The war on drugs is also a big contributor to the LEGAL gangs such as police,distric attornies, defence attorneys, prison officials and worst of all judges. Definitely an industrial economic complex similar to the Military Industrial Complex.

>The war on drugs is also a big contributor to the LEGAL gangs such as police,distric attornies, defence attorneys, prison officials and worst of all judges.

I agree with your sentiment but I find it odd that you think judges are the worst. Of all the people in the system judges are probably the least worst because they don't have as many incentives to do things that are bad for society but good for them personally the way all the other actors do (i.e. they do not directly benefit from the war on drugs).

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