SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#151

Post by wonderwonder » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:50 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #147

wonderwonder wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They launch giant multi million dollar missiles into space. Allowing an employee that knows they are terminated and is most likely distracted to continue working on a project like that is not worth the risk. If someone was genuinely upset and wanted revenge, a good portion of them are literally rocket scientists, they could probably figure out a way to do it if given a couple weeks. Better just to cut ties as quickly…

I used to work for a government contractor and during lay-offs they rarely did the whole plug-pulling nonsense on their employees when they needed to restructure or lay people off. So I suppose you can consider me highly skeptical when a commercial company makes the excuse that they're doing it for security reasons. Because to me, that sounds like pure bullshit designed to cover for shitty practices.

It's easy for me to take a pragmatic approach from the outside looking in but if I was the one getting laid off, I would probably share your sentiment.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#152

Post by GuiA » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:50 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #102

viraptor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever the reasons for the workforce reduction, this way of doing it is just unnecessarily cruel.

I disagree. What would be more cruel is to keep people guessing for weeks, or to do several smaller layoffs. That's how it's usually done, and it utterly decimates the morale, and causes the best people to leave. The best way to do a layoff is to cut once, cut deep, and do it quickly. And of course to not be an asshole and offer severance compensation to folks who were laid off.

You want to minimize the time where employees who are not being laid off are wondering “am I being laid off?”. Ideally you want that time to be 0, because it can wreck havoc on morale and those 24 or 48 hours of doubt can be enough to push people who are not getting laid off to reach out to their network, recruiters, etc. Now you’re losing high performers.

If indeed everyone was told “check your email over the weekend to find out if you’re laid off or not”, that’s terrible. Tell people who are being laid off that they are being laid off, tell people who are not being laid off why there are layoffs and that they’re not a part of it, but don’t keep everyone in the dark - even if it’s “just” for a day or two.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#153

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:51 AM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #140

fzeroracer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except keeping people around for two weeks longer allows people to say goodbye to their coworkers and people they might've worked with for years. It allows them to impart their knowledge to anyone else that might need it, document things that need documenting and more importantly: It means the company treats you like an actual human being. Acting like people are just gonna sit around and mope is not only highly disin…

They launch giant multi million dollar missiles into space. Allowing an employee that knows they are terminated and is most likely distracted to continue working on a project like that is not worth the risk. If someone was genuinely upset and wanted revenge, a good portion of them are literally rocket scientists, they could probably figure out a way to do it if given a couple weeks. Better just to cut ties as quickly…

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#154

Post by mc32 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:51 AM UTC

freewilly1040 wrote: post #73

cyberferret wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, if you cannot see that "fire by email" is far more impersonal and disconnecting than compassionately meeting with the employee 1 on 1 and giving them a definitive exit path along with the financial support to do so, then please do not ever work in HR or be responsible for employing people in the future. To subject ALL your employees to the 50/50 prospect that they will have a job come next working day is t…

The 1x1 scenario still involves calling the laid off employees into meetings in sequence while everyone else stresses out wondering if they are next. Layoffs are brutal no matter what you do.

This is true. Nothing like deer in the headlights when the person is singled out for the meeting. It’s a terrible thing.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#155

Post by SEJeff » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:54 AM UTC

SampleBourgeois wrote: post #103

zamadatix wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fire by email" isn't a bad option for layoffs in the double digit percentage as long as the delay between notification and sending the emails is low. Meeting 1 on 1 only works in non targeted low scale layoffs, anywhere else and it just creates hysteria. Also fire by email doesn't mean there isn't a definitive exit path or no financial support. The article itself states the email claimed a minimum of 8 weeks of pay…

Elon Musk is sticking to the Roman definition of decimation

The roman definition involved beating 1 in 10 to death by the "coworkers", so no, I don't think 8 weeks of severance and helping them write resumes plus get new jobs elsewhere is a very good definition of decimation.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#156

Post by abalone » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:54 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #102

viraptor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever the reasons for the workforce reduction, this way of doing it is just unnecessarily cruel.

I disagree. What would be more cruel is to keep people guessing for weeks, or to do several smaller layoffs. That's how it's usually done, and it utterly decimates the morale, and causes the best people to leave. The best way to do a layoff is to cut once, cut deep, and do it quickly. And of course to not be an asshole and offer severance compensation to folks who were laid off.

> I disagree. What would be more cruel is to keep people guessing for weeks, or to do several smaller layoffs. That's how it's usually done

No it's not and you're presenting a false dichotomy. They made the decision who to fire (to "cut once"). The question is email vs. having managers meet with their impacted direct reports which can definitely and is regularly done inside of one day.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#157

Post by porpoisely » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:59 AM UTC

cyberferret wrote: post #57

mulmen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's less cruel? Face to face meetings? Layoffs suck, how is this particularly egregious?

Seriously, if you cannot see that "fire by email" is far more impersonal and disconnecting than compassionately meeting with the employee 1 on 1 and giving them a definitive exit path along with the financial support to do so, then please do not ever work in HR or be responsible for employing people in the future. To subject ALL your employees to the 50/50 prospect that they will have a job come next working day is t…

That's overly dramatic. I'd prefer an impersonal email over an uncomfortable and humiliating meeting with an HR employee where emotions are running high. What's to be gained by being laid off in person - other than discomfort on both sides and humiliation by laid-off employee?

Just send me an email with all the options and terms and contact information for HR. If I need clarification, let me be the one that seeks HR out.

Also, HR exists to protect the company, not to be your friend. There aren't there to offer compassion. That's not how business or HR works.

But maybe it's because I'm from the younger generation who grew up with email, text, IM, etc. I can see older generations being used to and preferring face-to-face interaction.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#158

Post by jameslk » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:00 AM UTC

SpaceX is not a tech company. Aerospace/defense contractor companies have frequent layoffs. Usually this occurs when one of these companies don't win a contract or new regulations cut back on defense/space programs.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#159

Post by duaoebg » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

genericone wrote: post #91

duaoebg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm

Were the sacrificial lambs at least told in secret that they were 'hired in order to be laid off' at the next round? I hope they were not just given rote tasks, but allowed to explore their skills while they are in limbo so that they can train-up or look for jobs... Nah that's just wishful thinking.

If the ‘lamb’ is unfamiliar with the concept there is no hint you could give that would not also open you up to lawsuits.

When I was told that I wasn’t good enough by my new boss and should look for another job on my first day, I thought it was ridiculous, and that it would be possible to change her mind. She was not my hiring boss due to a reorganization that happened just before I started. I hung on for a year and the stress literally nearly killed me, I ended up quitting for health reasons. I got the lowest ranking you could get in what I believe to be the shortest amount of time in the company’s history.

The funny thing is is that I’m a freakish prodigy at my work and after a successful stint at a different company, I ended up back at the same company at much much higher position.

Hating companies like this is like hating a snake that bit you... it’s a snake. At least in the US the money is better.

If I could give advice to anyone who finds themselves in a similar position it would be that failure is not the end and not always your fault. And probably find a new job sooner rather than later.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#160

Post by cortesoft » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #114

viraptor wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still tell everyone immediately at the end of the day. Or just send the email on the weekend. You don't have to say you're going to do it first and keep everyone worried.

You can't when you're dealing with 6000+ people. Likely even the managers didn't know so as to avoid feeding the rumor mill. They'll now need to make up their minds about their reports whom they wouldn't mind losing.

No way are the managers going to all stay late on Friday and figure out who to fire on Saturday. Those discussions have already happened, and they know who is being let go.