I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi • Hacker News Board

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#341

Post by imichael » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:41 AM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #29

The lede here is somewhat burried: "From what I’ve since learned, if a card in your Google Pay is stolen, or someone uses your Payments account fraudulently, or anything happens that leads to a security flag being raised, it can lead to your Google Payments account being frozen. ... If you can’t use Google Payments, you can’t pay for Google Fi This, fundamentally, is why I can’t suggest anyone use Project Fi anymore.…

I wonder how it really works. My first thought is to have a dedicated credit card used only to pay for my google services, kept in a drawer at home (and not uses for any other online service) and therefore unlikely (less likely?) to be used fraudulently. But I have three cards known to Google Payments. If any one of them has an issue would Google lock my account? I hope not.

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#342

Post by brownbat » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

MyNameIsFred wrote: post #333

gameswithgo wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's an unsolvable fraud/scammer problem. credit card companies and traditional banks and credit unions handle it fine. >Too many people, scams and fraud become big problems. if the solution to fraud is un-fixable account freezes, you have not actually solved anything. It is fraud itself.

They most certainly do not "handle it just fine". They are highly scammable, they know it, and it's "solved" my moving as much of the burden and repercussions onto the consumer as possible. I've had my identity stolen, and both my wife and I have been mistaken for somebody else. There ARE way to move past this condition (inline with Google Pay, apparently), but it's just done via trust. Or apathy. Or acceptable risk.…

Huh. I've had credit card companies call me proactively when they thought something was wrong, before I caught any stray purchases. They refunded the money before I knew my card was stolen. So that was nice.

But then I've also heard pure horror stories about stolen identities, and I am genuinely sorry you faced any of that.

So what's going on here...

I think this is due to one aspect of their model that is ultimately an improvement, even though it still completely breaks at moments.

+ + Your card number is not your account. + +

Ie, if your CCN is compromised, it's disposable without starting your relationship with the company entirely from scratch.

Your "identity" though is not disposable. Your identity controls your relationship with the company and is not disposable. That causes major problems when hijacked, as it did for you. And that's not fixable (or at least not easy to fix at all).

So while we might not be able to solve the problem with identity, we can create firebreaks -- disposable parts of the infrastructure that attract some thefts because they allow quick wins. Ie, CCNs provide access to money. That funnels a lot of theft towards something that is easy to monitor and patch.

The identity theft remains an issue, but hopefully hits fewer people.

One thing that makes Google struggle is that they combine all of these interactions together. Nothing is revocable without resetting your entire relationship.

Given that they started as an email service, I have no idea if it's even fixable from where they are.

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#343

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:02 AM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #146

tracker1 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the bigger reasons I switched to Verizon was specifically coverage. There are a lot of areas (wyoming, dakotas, parts of idaho and northern utah and nevada) that I drive through where Verizon is the only carrier with any coverage. I couldn't be convinced to switch to Fi, and frankly given the horror stories, not sure that I trust google should I ever fall afoul of their platform exclusion and zero support or t…

Verizon is primarily a CDMA network, which doesn't have coverage internationally unless you pay extra. Same with ATT. We switched to Fi because we travel to Europe frequently and Fi doesn't charge extra for it, the phones just work when you land.

[deleted]

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#344

Post by logifail » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:06 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #252

marcus_holmes wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a physical address (I move approximately every 3 weeks). I don't have a phone number (I move country every 3 weeks and need a new SIM each time). I have so many problems with online authentication it's not funny. So yeah, I'd love a global system of identification, but please let's not tie it to an address or phone number

Passport number along with cryptographic authentication similar to Estonia’s ID card. I believe this satisfies the need for authentication of all citizens at a global scope.

Except: when you renew a passport, don't you get a new passport number?

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#345

Post by LeoPanthera » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:21 AM UTC

ploxiln wrote: post #130

ronsor wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a general issue with google. If their system decides it doesn't like you, then you're out of luck. You'll never get them to fix it.

This is also a problem with Square, and Stripe, and Paypal ... it's an unsolvable fraud/scammer problem. Basically, if there was customer support that could fix the problem, then skilled scammers can get money and control out of them. They can do it a lot better than you can get your stuff re-enabled, they know just when to say what to whom. Verizon just accepts the inefficiency, and also over-charges random customer…

I know it's against the narrative, but I find PayPal's support people (the ones you phone up, at least) to be both empowered and helpful. They have gone out of their way, on more than one occasion, to help me out and get my account back to normal.

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#346

Post by slyall » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:45 AM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #237

wyldfire wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is also a problem with Square, and Stripe, and Paypal ... it's an unsolvable fraud/scammer problem. It's compounded by the fact that Google has the primary element of your 21st century identity: your email address.

I recommend anyone who likes Gmail to use your own domain name@example.com and just forward all messages to your Gmail address. Only give out your own example.com email and set it as the reply to. Even the cheap budget registrars offer email forwarding for free and I have never had any trouble. This gives you the benefits of free Gmail without handing your entire life over to them. At least with a tld there is some d…

I wouldn't advise doing this. Forwarding all your email from one provider to another doesn't really work in today's Internet.

The problem is that from gmail's point of view your registrar is now sending it a lot of spam. So it'll block the registrar or filter it more aggressively.

Also if you get email from a 3rd party who uses domain-keys, spf, etc (eg just about everyone) then those emails will be failing all the checks when gmail receives them.

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#347

Post by 1stranger » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:49 AM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #179

tracker1 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even have a passport currently. If I did travel, I'm more likely to buy a throwaway cell with a different account and add the number to my google voice account dialing...

If you're stuck in rural US, then you should use Verizon for it's older CDMA networks. Spending extra money and going through the hassle of getting another phone while traveling is a personal preference it seems, but for people who do travel it's one less thing to worry about.

CDMA is going away. Verizon is supposed to drop 3G by end of this year.

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#348

Post by lowercased » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:56 AM UTC

magduf wrote: post #121

sithadmin wrote: post #6

I abandoned Fi after a trip to western Europe, where I was billed for 6 GB of usage in a single day on one of my data-only SIM cards, despite that the device the SIM was installed in (a 4G hotspot) registered only 200MB of usage that day. Support was completely unhelpful, and after escalation reported back that the Fi team has zero visibility into chargebacks from their carrier partners and ergo could not diagnose th…

I just went to western Europe (Germany specifically), and spend 15 Euros for phone service there. It's simple: I just bought a SIM card at a shop (O2) and put it in my Verizon phone. I got a prepaid card that had unlimited text/calls (within Germany only), and 3GB of data, which was far more than enough for my 2 weeks there. Cellular service is much cheaper in Europe than in the US, so you might as well take advantag…

picked up a one month sim in romania for $7. 20 gig of 4g data, 1000 min of call, unlimited text. calls were supposedly limited to romania but i called usa a few times without issue.

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#349

Post by jnieminen » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 4:01 AM UTC

etimberg wrote: post #332

komali2 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my domain through domains.google.com though, lol Though, my nameservers are on bluehost. My biggest issue is figuring out other aspects of google-tied-ness. For example, everyone has my @gmail email right now. Websites, newsletters, contacts, everybody. Untying that will take a while. Also, I use Inbox for organizing my mail, and I like that a lot. I need to figure out a way to get similar functionality whil…

I just started the process of moving from gmail to an email on a custom domain through https://www.migadu.com/en/index.html . The setup process was pretty painfree and they provide very detailed setup instructions. I haven't set my gmail to forward to the new email yet. I've spent the last month or so unsubscribing from a lot of email newsletters. Once I get the mail volume down even further, I'll setup gmail to auto…

iCloud calendar or hosting your own think on nextcloud?

Re: I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi

#350

Post by dpark » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 4:07 AM UTC

velosol wrote: post #322

dpark wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll find that if you do this, you start getting emails directly to your gmail anyway. I never give out my gmail address, but I use gmail and they happily report my gmail address when they send email as my “real” account. (Both email addresses are included in emails I send.) And upstream they are happy to respond to that gmail account when people hit the reply button. So I have tons of people who would essentially…

It's because of Google's use of 'From' and 'Sender' headers in gmail. If you setup an SMTP server to send your emails from for your @example.com address then Google won't mess around and the emails appear to actually come from the email address you want out there, not your @gmail.com.

You can actually set up gmail to send through an external server? I had no idea they’d support that. Running an SMTP server is absolutely not something I’m willing to do, though. Aside from the general setup/maintenance hassle, all the big companies are aggressive at blocking spam and private SMTP servers are just tough to keep unblocked these days (or so I read).