SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#71

Post by rhizome » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

cyberferret wrote: post #57

mulmen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's less cruel? Face to face meetings? Layoffs suck, how is this particularly egregious?

Seriously, if you cannot see that "fire by email" is far more impersonal and disconnecting than compassionately meeting with the employee 1 on 1 and giving them a definitive exit path along with the financial support to do so, then please do not ever work in HR or be responsible for employing people in the future. To subject ALL your employees to the 50/50 prospect that they will have a job come next working day is t…

I imagine it's possible that dehumanizing layoffs like this will put SpaceX at a competitive disadvantage, its lunch eventually getting eaten by companies who do care enough about their employees to interact with them in person regarding the business of the company and their place in it, good or bad. This would come out in increased efficiencies due to no surprise-axed-or-not email always threatening to land in their inboxes.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#72

Post by BeeOnRope » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

cyberferret wrote: post #57

mulmen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's less cruel? Face to face meetings? Layoffs suck, how is this particularly egregious?

Seriously, if you cannot see that "fire by email" is far more impersonal and disconnecting than compassionately meeting with the employee 1 on 1 and giving them a definitive exit path along with the financial support to do so, then please do not ever work in HR or be responsible for employing people in the future. To subject ALL your employees to the 50/50 prospect that they will have a job come next working day is t…

Personally I would prefer to be fired by email versus an 1 on 1 face to face meeting. The financial support and other helpful tools seem like an orthogonal issue.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#73

Post by freewilly1040 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

cyberferret wrote: post #57

mulmen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's less cruel? Face to face meetings? Layoffs suck, how is this particularly egregious?

Seriously, if you cannot see that "fire by email" is far more impersonal and disconnecting than compassionately meeting with the employee 1 on 1 and giving them a definitive exit path along with the financial support to do so, then please do not ever work in HR or be responsible for employing people in the future. To subject ALL your employees to the 50/50 prospect that they will have a job come next working day is t…

The 1x1 scenario still involves calling the laid off employees into meetings in sequence while everyone else stresses out wondering if they are next. Layoffs are brutal no matter what you do.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#74

Post by slededit » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:54 AM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #15

technotony wrote: post #10

Some think you should do this annually. "Back when he was running GE, Jack Welch famously argued that leaders should fire the bottom 10 percent of their workforce each year, as part of an orderly continuous improvement process." https://www.inc.com/paul-b-brown/should-you-fire-10-of-your-...

Look at where GE is now. Yes, Welch is gone now but the effects of his leadership are there.

Are we just going to completely ignore the 17 year reign of Jeff Immelt? GE Capital gained enough prominence to destroy the company under his reign. Jeff was the one that acquired one of the nations largest subprime lenders in 2004, primed perfectly to maximize losses in 2008.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#75

Post by bsmitty5000 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:54 AM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #35

bsmitty5000 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taken straight from the ULA playbook!

From what I've heard from the SpaceX and ULA people I know (although there may be some sample bias because most of the SpaceX people I know quit due to the hours), that's not really the case. ULA is more of a 9-5 company, especially for union folks, whereas SpaceX is more of a 60-80 hours/week kind of place.

that's true, but during & after their layoffs a couple years back they imposed a 'not mandatory but strongly encouraged' 20% overtime.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#76

Post by dorfsmay » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:54 AM UTC

cyberferret wrote: post #57

mulmen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's less cruel? Face to face meetings? Layoffs suck, how is this particularly egregious?

Seriously, if you cannot see that "fire by email" is far more impersonal and disconnecting than compassionately meeting with the employee 1 on 1 and giving them a definitive exit path along with the financial support to do so, then please do not ever work in HR or be responsible for employing people in the future. To subject ALL your employees to the 50/50 prospect that they will have a job come next working day is t…

What do you think goes through people's head as their managers walk to them "can we talk" during a staff reduction exercise?

Have you ever sit across an HR person saying all the right things and putting an as empathic as possible face on, and telling you "it's not you, it's us"?

Personally I'd prefer the email, as long as, I have a contact to talk to for the next steps.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#77

Post by fzeroracer » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:55 AM UTC

zorga wrote: post #70

cyberferret wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, if you cannot see that "fire by email" is far more impersonal and disconnecting than compassionately meeting with the employee 1 on 1 and giving them a definitive exit path along with the financial support to do so, then please do not ever work in HR or be responsible for employing people in the future. To subject ALL your employees to the 50/50 prospect that they will have a job come next working day is t…

A business has no responsibility to financially support an ex-employee. If it does so, it's a gift, not something that should be expected.

And employees have no responsibility to stay at a company that treats ex-employees like shit. Actions like these are a great way to demoralize your workforce and entice higher-level employees to jump ship.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#78

Post by FlyMoreRockets » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:55 AM UTC

awake wrote: post #45

whatshisface wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you're going from 6 new rockets per year to 2 new rockets per year. Also rockets are not like your software programs that get rewritten every time a manager feels like it. You stick with what works. Last year, SpaceX had big plans for new rocket designs, a satellite constellation, and more. Unlike a ravioli canning plant, SpaceX has an option other than cutting down to maintnence staff once cash flow positive. I…

Unless they're cutting the satellite constellation I think this fits in with what people expected for SpaceX's growth. The problem is even as costs for rocket launches go down we aren't seeking hockey stick growth in the demand for rocket launches. The number of rocket launches per year has remained steady since 2015. SpaceX is getting an increasing number of those launches but even if they got all of them they would…

There have been plenty of satellite price flexibility studies that show there is a marked lag between supply and demand.

This is because high launch costs demand extraordinary levels of design and Q&A: there may never be a second chance. Unfortunately, these supply chains have flexibility baked out for some time, perhaps predating the Apollo era.

Lowered launch costs and increased launch opportunities offer increasing failure tolerance to an increasing number of projects which can now afford second chances and backup plans. However, these corporate cultures take time to adapt, they've been built around single-shot opportunities for decades.

TLDR: satellite markets are anything but nimble at this point, due to historical reasons. This will change, given time.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#79

Post by rhizome » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:55 AM UTC

FPGAhacker wrote: post #53

cyberferret wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, rather than a "Don't come Monday" email on a weekend, which effectively gives them 0 working days notice, giving those employees say, 2 weeks notice that they will be terminated at least gives them a chance to re-train for another position or get their resumes together to try and find another job while still getting an income to pay for rent, food etc. FAR less 'cruel' to give them an opportunity to plan their…

This rarely happens because of liability and security. It’s pretty common to be walked out by security after packing up your stuff when you are laid off.

AKA the first 10 minutes of the movie Margin Call.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#80

Post by rhizome » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 1:56 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #44

> We had an all hands meeting and were told to go home and wait for an email that basically says we stay or go. (from reddit post) I'm surprised about that idea. At that size I expected them to follow "your account is locked immediately before you're told" policy. Guaranteeing people have access to company emails over the weekend and are told they're fired, sounds like a bad idea for IT to deal with.

Maybe it's doing double duty to sniff out exfiltrators.