Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

juliareda.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 450 posts

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#271

Post by product50 »

GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

Do you even know what you are saying?

All this will mean is that the big tech, Googles and Facebooks of the world, will solidify their position for years/decades to come since only they will have the money/resources to take care of this expensive regulation. New startups on the other hand will stand little chance in this new world.

All these regulations look good on paper. But when you understand their medium-long term ramifications is when you realize how unfairly the deck is stacked now.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#272

Post by wbl »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #126
oaiey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse. They will be the ones which can comply. They can write legal terms, they can check real government identities and create a significant upload filter strategy. They are the winners, not the losers here.

right! in a way it creates a couple of jobs but only for those who can program - somebody has to implement these policies into technical reality. looking at GDPR (which I fully support) it has created quite a large niche of specialized lawyers and people are now busy educating themselves about how to isolate PII. No doubt this bill will also produce quite a bit of demand for specialists. But it's hardly innovation. A…

I keep hearing this but most webapp style applications don't have a lot of PII.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#273

Post by blattimwind »

mvanga wrote: post #199
GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

"internet platforms", "organize", "promote", "large amounts", "uploaded by their users", "in order to make a profit". These phrases by themselves are open to interpretation in various ways. In particular, what I find dangerous is that these appear to be specific enough to convince people to believe there will be little to no room for abuse, and yet are vague enough to allow a motivated political actor to target someo…

Indeterminate legal concepts are very common, I don't know why this is always brought up as soon as it's "about the internet".

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#274

Post by ABCLAW »

hyperman1 wrote: post #185
GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

>"internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit"

HN does not organize large amounts of copyright-protected works, nor are the links to articles an 'upload'. If HN organized PDFs of the linked articles so you could just skip heading to a third party site then we'd be talking.

'meant' is not a dangerous word. All laws require interpretation, which is why most countries have specific interpretation guidelines for legislation and even then sometimes it takes a few cracks at the can to get it right.

That's not something 'dangerous', although it can and does go wrong from time to time. But it's a standard risk of rulemaking as it's the standard process for courts interfacing with legislation or other rule-making texts.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#275

Post by sunir »

hyperman1 wrote: post #185
GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

In the US the letter of the law matters because of how jurisprudence evolved there.

EU has a different jurisprudence system based on guidelines and interpretation.

There is a wide range of options philosophically. Confucian courts are even farther from what you might recognize.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#276

Post by ben_w »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #236
ben_w wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> free movement should be a human right. Agreed > I alone make that possible not some political entity. Except for the armed border guards, the national rules on who can work in a nation, the police who can deport you if you don’t obey the rules, sure.

yeah. I was ignorantly thinking of those that follow the law, are highly skilled and are welcomed into the country but didn't consider the folk who immigrate for economic reasons or refugees etc. sadly many will be prevented by a barrier if they have "the wrong type" of passport

> highly skilled and are welcomed into the country but didn't consider the folk who immigrate for economic reasons

Aren’t those often the same people?

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#277

Post by gregknicholson »

r3bl wrote: post #219
yostrovs wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear what's going on with GDPR, good test cases are only now starting to be tested. But the fact that many American newspapers, for example, are blocked in Europe is certainly something to worry about.

> But the fact that many American newspapers, for example, are blocked in Europe is certainly something to worry about. There's just one large company that decided to block EU visitors: Tribune Publishing[0]. Yes, them blocking Europe is bad. Them owning so many local newspapers that this decision even makes an impact is a bigger problem. I'm not saying that they're the only ones blocking Europe, but I am saying that…

tronc [vt] To make content unavailable in certain jurisdictions due to unwillingness to comply with their laws.

Examples:

* Tribune have troncked Europe because their data control is jazzy.

* Google should really tronc China - fight the Firewall!

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#278

Post by c3o »

philpem wrote: post #111
DanBC wrote: post #61

A friendly reminder that almost no-one commenting in this thread has read the full articles and recitals.

I'd love to see a "cliff's notes" summary of what A13 means as it is right now. Something like the "Doorstep EU" app does for Brexit-related news -- an actual, thought-out summary which links to authoritative reference material.

Isn't that what the linked-to article is?

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#279

Post by graeme »

tomp wrote: post #252
fuscy wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not related to business but there's a horror story with Romania (it's in the EU) asking a news organization to provide informants information related to some corruption leaks. The information is requested by the national GDPR enforcer so it bypasses the prevention written in the GDPR about news leaks. Now there's a trial going around with this which blocked any further spread of that information until it's so…

Isn't that just straight abuse of the law? AFAIK GDPR only protects your personal information, it can't be used to request someone else's personal information (if anything, you could argue that GDPR prevents you from giving out another person's info).

Potentual for abuse of laws is one of the concerns people have about laws.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#280

Post by rapind »

ddxxdd wrote: post #164
porlune wrote: post #140

This seems like it will benefit the whales more than the fish, as they can absorb copyright infringement costs into their already expansive legal departments, whereas a smaller company will likely go belly up or be chummed.

The same can be said for every other EU law. Net neutrality regulations include vague language that allows "reasonable network management", which is a multi-million dollar legal hassle that stresses small ISP owners. And I shudder to think how Duck Duck Go's programmers will manage to comply with the EU's "right to be forgotten [from a search engine's results]". I hope the politicians in Washington, D.C. recognize th…

I would imagine you'd be able to simply submit a domain to DDG, they would ask for a txt record or file to be present within the site, similar to a DNS verification tool. Then it would be queued up in a crawler for removal upon verification. Is there something I'm missing?

If it's individual pages, then probably just a meta-tag?

I think robots.txt could be leveraged for this though maybe.

Post reply on HN