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Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

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Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#251

Does anyone know of any cases where this new clause was used to shut down existing games using the unity runtime in their servers? This ToS change has been around for about a month so I figured that there might have been previous activity.

They cleared up this concern in their blog post: https://blogs.unity3d.com/2019/01/10/our-response-to-improba...

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#252
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait do they? I wasn't aware that UE4 supported C#.

Via a plugin developed by some Microsoft employees: https://mono-ue.github.io/

That's either a dead project or it's moved somewhere that I can't find it.

Either way it's not something I'd trust enough to use for a commercial project, so I definitely wouldn't say UE supports C#.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#253
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've used both extensively, and they are good at different things. Unreal is far better IF you fit cleanly into one of their templates (first person, third person, etc). Superior renderer with great built-in post effects, FAR better multiplayer support, better materials/shader editor. However, if you try to do something substantially different than they have imagined, it can get ugly very fast. The C++ used is…

Re: scripting Ue4 has the source available, so you definitely can integrate your preferred scripting language.

You're technically right, but that's potentially an enormous task. If we're comparing Unity with Unreal functionality, integrating a scripting language should include editor integration, debugging, etc. I'd rather spend my time actually making a game.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#254

So right now we know the "what", but not the "why". What Improbable really has, or claims to have, is a way to scale massively multiplayer games where everyone is in the same world. They have a back end which is basically a synching system for small data elements between computers in a data center. Think of it as being like the way a shared memory multiprocessor synchs its memory system. Some data items belong to a s…

You mention havoc but i still notice Havoc being used for a lot of different games.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#255
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but really, is this enforceable, for code already downloaded, used and deployed in compliance with the license at that time?

According to Crytek, it should be. Their engine license[0] is, if I am reading it correctly, similar in this respect. > By doing so, you, the Licensee, agree to all terms and conditions of this Agreement or in the accompanying documentation. You should read this Agreement carefully before the Start Date. If you do not agree with the terms and conditions set forth in this Agreement you are not authorized to use the CR…

I wonder what a court has said about this, or if there are laws or regulations at the federal level about this.

I always thought a contract had to include "a meeting of the minds," and I cannot see how that is possible if one party can change their mind for any reason at any time without any discussion or renewed agreement.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#256

SpatialOS streaming Unity seems broadly equivalent to AWS hosting MongoDB. Especially in that it undermines Unity’s (i.e. Mongo’s) ability to sell a hosted equivalent product (whether or not that exists yet) and it leverages some of Unity’s value into rent for Improbable. Now there’s a difference in that SpatialOS is adding meaningful value - but it’s not necessarily their’s to take. Ultimately this is Unity’s platfo…

AWS isn’t using any of MongoDB’s code — merely emulating the protocol and behavior.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#257
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've used both extensively, and they are good at different things. Unreal is far better IF you fit cleanly into one of their templates (first person, third person, etc). Superior renderer with great built-in post effects, FAR better multiplayer support, better materials/shader editor. However, if you try to do something substantially different than they have imagined, it can get ugly very fast. The C++ used is…

The kind of sad thing to me is that I’ve talked to several people who hold UE4 up as a shining example of “modern C++ done right”. ...but it’s really quite a mess when you look closely. A successful project and “good code” aren’t necessarily the same thing.

UE4 uses their own C++ containers (such as TArray and TMap), which is very far from modern C++ (which recommends using STL like a part of the language). And UE4's macro system has garbage collection support built in, which would upset the modern C++ folks using shared_ptr and unique_ptr. They don't even like macros, they prefer using template metaprogramming whenever possible...

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UE4 focuses on high-end console/PC. For rapid development of mobile games, Unity is basically the only choice.

> For rapid development of mobile games, Unity is basically the only choice. Why? Unreal Engine has targeted iOS + Android phones for 5+ years now, successfully. (Fortnite, PUBG, Dungeon Defenders, Horn, etc). More mobile developers are experienced with Unity over Unreal today , but that's largely inertia more than anything else.

Package sizes are pretty big. I think an empty project packages to about 60 MB.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, UE4 is not FOSS as per GNU, it is open source in that you can see the code and there's a large community contributing fixes and additions with every new version. I think the distinction is pedantic for most users.

You're wrong, users of software libraries care whether they're allowed to fork the library or not.

Define fork. You can make your own custom version and share that code with anyone, and use it exactly as freely as the original version.

The reason it's not open source is the royalty clause, not lack of ability to see/edit/modify/fork the code.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That change seems to be in line with the FOSS ethos. I imagine that from the perspective of the FOSS community, using FOSS software in a SaaS product without releasing the code that drives the service is just a loophole.

IIRC, the uproar was less about the principle, and more about how it is defined: > If you make the functionality of the Program or a modified version available to third parties as a service, you must make the Service Source Code available via network download to everyone at no charge [...] Making the functionality of the Program or modified version available to third parties as a service includes, without limitation,…

Well.

No reasonable person would ever say that your website derives its value primarily from the database engine.

But lawsuits aren't forced to be reasonable.

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