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Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

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Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#301

Post by zackmorris »

goldenkey wrote: post #300
zackmorris wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya I'm troubled by this too. I'm really into bodybuilding but the human body simply can't recover unless it eats beef/salmon/eggs/chicken/etc at least one or more times per week, especially after the minor injuries that inevitably come with lifting weights. As a general rule, I never eat mammals that are omnivores or carnivores, so pigs and anything higher in the food chain are out. Veganism is a little unrealistic I…

I lift HIT for BB. You might give Elmhurst's nut milks and protein shakes a try. Peanut protein is extremely comparable to meat protein. Veganism isnt unrealistic - it is just not a walk in the park unless you can afford to buy nice products like these peanut protein shakes and drink 8 of them a day. Proper veganism for lazy hackers like us, that BB, is expensive. You and me both know we arent going to eat a plate of…

Ya the funny thing is that I've tried to be a vegetarian as much as possible over 15 years with a 5 year break in the middle. The very best post-workout meal I ever found is a large burrito made of something like:

* 1 can of pinquitos or pinto beans

* 1 can of garbanzo beans (optional)

* 2-3 flour tortillas

* 1/2 onion

* 1/2 green pepper

* cheddar cheese

* 1/2 avocado or about a dozen black olives

* salsa

* lettuce (optional)

Then eat it in a giant bowl with 8-16 oz of milk.

This all worked great until the last year or so as I've developed some leaky gut issues due to a sensitivity to peanuts after living on PB&J sandwiches for a year after the housing crash. I think the sensitivity may have transferred to beans recently, causing a legume/nightshade sensitivity to my gut flora or intestinal lining. Could just be due to middle age though.

Anyway, I switched to almond butter, laid off the beans for a couple of months, ate L-glutamine and licorice root capsules, and am 85% back to normal. No acne but some digestive issues still.

A vegetarian diet helps you pack on pounds like a gorilla, but can make it tricky to get the "dry" look of classic bodybuilders from the 70s that ate 1-2 pounds of beef per day and did steroids. Also I know very few vegetarians that made it longer than about 3 years. It's doable but takes discipline to eat enough variety and get enough micro nutrients. Inflammation is a big problem with legumes, but it's also a problem with high animal protein diets. Like anything, balance is best, but for ethical reasons I prefer to eat as little meat as possible. Hope this helps someone.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#302

Post by hi41 »

fnovd wrote: post #114
agumonkey wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not what I was saying. Eating meat is natural, it's been for cosmic ages, and to an extent I have no issue with that. The mass globalized consumption does bother me. I reduce my consumption. I might try vegan but I'll surely miss all the meat based products. Maybe I'll find a middle point by breeding, killing producing it myself so at least I did it on my own, think what you want, there's a form of respect in that. I…

>Eating meat is natural Relieving yourself outdoors is natural, and we've been doing it for ages. Killing intraspecies rivals/competitors is natural, and we've been doing it for ages. Dying of a preventable disease is natural, and we've been doing it for ages. I don't think we should base our behavior off naturalistic fallacies. Is eating meat better for your health than abstaining? Usually not. Is eating meat better…

I have thought about going vegan too. Do you think it would work in all geographical areas? What about people living in very cold regions of earth. They can’t grow crops throughout the year. They have to subsist by hunting fish and other animals. What do you think?

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#303

Post by goldenkey »

zackmorris wrote: post #301
goldenkey wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lift HIT for BB. You might give Elmhurst's nut milks and protein shakes a try. Peanut protein is extremely comparable to meat protein. Veganism isnt unrealistic - it is just not a walk in the park unless you can afford to buy nice products like these peanut protein shakes and drink 8 of them a day. Proper veganism for lazy hackers like us, that BB, is expensive. You and me both know we arent going to eat a plate of…

Ya the funny thing is that I've tried to be a vegetarian as much as possible over 15 years with a 5 year break in the middle. The very best post-workout meal I ever found is a large burrito made of something like: * 1 can of pinquitos or pinto beans * 1 can of garbanzo beans (optional) * 2-3 flour tortillas * 1/2 onion * 1/2 green pepper * cheddar cheese * 1/2 avocado or about a dozen black olives * salsa * lettuce (…

I guess we aren't much alike. I've always been a skinny guy, its hard for me to eat a lot. Without cheeses, I have a tough time packing on weight. Thats why I like shakes, its much easier to down a shake than eat a meal. But I'll concede that solid foods are probably better for gut health.

Rice and pea protein tends to be extremely gritty due to the husks, so I am not a big fan of it. These peanut shakes are lifesavers for me, although its probably a tenuous plan to rely on a single product to maintain veganism? :-/

Micro nutrients aren't a huge deal if you take quality supps like Life Extensions Mix. Greens+ Wild Berries is also a great complete nutrient supp.

Id also recommend eating a few tablespoons of bee pollen granules. They actually have a surprisingly high amount of protein and micronutrients.

I have logos for a startup I was working on called Roylent, which would basically be a protein shake made purely from bee products, bee pollen, honey, propolis, and royal jelly.

Unfortunately I never completed it but I do think it could be a good product for vegans that are ok with non-lethal products that work with animals rather than against them. Bees are awesome. :-)

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#304

Post by int_19h »

agumonkey wrote: post #242
int_19h wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What of it? If hunting is actually utilitarian (i.e. for food), there's no ethical issue here. How difficult it is only matters if hunting is a sport, but that's exactly the ethically dubious part of it. So even in that sense, using a bow is more "sadistic", since it amounts to causing suffering to a living being for the sake of more challenging entertainment for oneself. (And, of course, a bow would be a lot more pa…

it's not entertainment, it's about not overpowering, I used bow as an example, maybe it's still too strong (you can kill from afar) but compared to a gun, at least it requires skills to actually kill. Anybody can pull a trigger.

Again, why does it matter that "at least it requires skill", if it's not for entertainment? And why is "overpowering" a problem? An overly powerful weapon just means that there's more chance of a one-shot kill on the animal, that minimizes suffering (especially from when wounded animals escape, and then slowly die).

If you mean the ability to take more game with a gun than with a bow, that is controlled by hunting licensing and game tags. Without tags and quotas, bow hunters would decimate animal populations just as well, through sheer numbers.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#305

Post by pmarreck »

kkhire wrote: post #49
pmarreck wrote: post #13

To forgive the tautology, intelligent creatures are intelligent. Which also means that love is possible. I mean... every person who's ever had a pet (of any sort) understands this (as I stare at the photo of my recently-deceased and very-charismatic cat). It may not fit into any naturalistic model that clearly separates humans from these other intelligent creatures (and ascribes all perception of humanlike feeling to…

it took me like 6-7 months to go vegan, it was hard for me to give up omelettes and cheese. but one day, I woke up and just didn't want to eat it anymore. Start to have vegan meals once a day. then 3x a week. slowly your taste buds change and then you don't want it anymore

I don’t want to live in a world where I can’t have my morning poached eggs:

I only buy from ethical egg producers though

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#306

Post by pmarreck »

uhtred wrote: post #286
pmarreck wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cornucopia.org/scorecard/eggs/ The highest rated egg producers have "truly pastured" chickens... which is probably as close as you can get to giving them a "natural life" while confining them. Note that there is a mutually-beneficial trade going on here- They do give up their eggs (and eventually themselves), and are (broadly) confined, but while alive they can eat as much as they want and they are secure…

so what happens to the male chicks that are born in the egg industry? They get killed, by gassing, suffocation or being thrown into a grinder. Why does a dairy cow produce milk? because she has a baby. Where does that baby go after birth? I mean, the milk is for the humans, not the baby cow, right? Baby cow gets taken from mother causing intense emotional pain for both, and if male, sold into incredibly cruel veal in…

I’m listening. Couple of comments.

The fact that cows must produce babies in order to produce milk was somehow lost on me. That’s unfortunate. I had assumed it was injected hormones that faked a pregnancy. But you did send me on a cow rabbit-hole.

> intense emotional pain for both

I did not find objective evidence that this is common, nor do I think it is easy to evaluate whether a cow is experiencing “intense emotional pain.”

> lonely terror

Yes, the worst milk producers do that. I buy organic and that means the cow absolutely must be pastured.

> video evidence available online

Yes, of the worst possible conditions, taken at the most offensive and least ethical milk producers, and posted to blogs with a clear vegan bias to rationalize. Surely. :P

> no way this demand could ever be met (unless ethics is sacrificed)

I would like to see evidence for this assertion

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#307

Post by uhtred »

pmarreck wrote: post #306
uhtred wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so what happens to the male chicks that are born in the egg industry? They get killed, by gassing, suffocation or being thrown into a grinder. Why does a dairy cow produce milk? because she has a baby. Where does that baby go after birth? I mean, the milk is for the humans, not the baby cow, right? Baby cow gets taken from mother causing intense emotional pain for both, and if male, sold into incredibly cruel veal in…

I’m listening. Couple of comments. The fact that cows must produce babies in order to produce milk was somehow lost on me. That’s unfortunate. I had assumed it was injected hormones that faked a pregnancy. But you did send me on a cow rabbit-hole. > intense emotional pain for both I did not find objective evidence that this is common, nor do I think it is easy to evaluate whether a cow is experiencing “intense emotio…

I'm not going to spend my day finding evidence to convince you. You seem to be the sort of person that demands unreasonable amounts of evidence (clearly no one has studied every dairy cow to see if the suffer when their baby is taken away, or monitored every factory farm to see how the animals are treated. In fact with USA ag gag laws this is very hard anyway - big agriculture money buys the law makers) knowing that you won't then need to consider that your food choices support cruelty. If you are OK with the knowledge that sentient intelligent beings (where's the evidence that cows are intelligent, right?!) are treated as nothing more than a commodity, or slave, and if you can't understand (without evidence!) that taking a baby from an animal would cause it to suffer, then good luck to you, and enjoy your milk. I find it sad when common sense and compassion lose to statistics and numbers. (for the record, a simple google search seemed to return quite a few reports on psychological studies done on farm animals - if you are genuinely interested/concerned, and I doubt you are, then give a whirl). Ciao.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#308

Post by agumonkey »

int_19h wrote: post #304
agumonkey wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not entertainment, it's about not overpowering, I used bow as an example, maybe it's still too strong (you can kill from afar) but compared to a gun, at least it requires skills to actually kill. Anybody can pull a trigger.

Again, why does it matter that "at least it requires skill", if it's not for entertainment? And why is "overpowering" a problem? An overly powerful weapon just means that there's more chance of a one-shot kill on the animal, that minimizes suffering (especially from when wounded animals escape, and then slowly die). If you mean the ability to take more game with a gun than with a bow, that is controlled by hunting li…

Suffering is not a problem to me, every creature suffers, I don't pursue it, and it's not for sport; it's for fairness. I can remove a life to feed me if I didn't abuse an unfair position. Everything has to avoid death, it's how nature balances itself, it's almost thermodynamical.. I need the others, I was built for taking and avoiding being taken. ~class struggle in a way.

The skill side is a way to deserve it.

Fishing with a rod in a river versus a large boat with a big net. It's just too easy to wipe fishes without them standing a chance. A gun is similar to me.

I understand that you don't want to inflict pain and I don't want either, but as long as it's ~balanced, it's fair game.

Also, note that these animals have acute senses, hearing, smell.. it's not there for no reason. They also run fast to chase or run away. It's just how it is. I find balance in having to work for it, so I know deeply and appreciate few.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#309

Post by exclusiv »

agurk wrote: post #273
agumonkey wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not entertainment, it's about not overpowering, I used bow as an example, maybe it's still too strong (you can kill from afar) but compared to a gun, at least it requires skills to actually kill. Anybody can pull a trigger.

I spoke to an older hunter in New Zealand once who said he initially started with a view like yours. He was into rifle marksmanship, and didn't see the point in shooting at a live target. He had a friend who said it was harder than he thought, and invited him to come along sometime and see if he found it easy. Of course he went out, and even when lead in the direction of the deer couldn't manage to get one. After tha…

I've seen it surprisingly easy. I went on a deer hunt in Texas and the ranch owner had all these automatic feeders that ring a bell when they drop the feed. So the deer just show up on cue and they had blinds all over the property.

More like target practice than hunting in my opinion. They did get a ton of game management tags and they were really targeting the non-typical deer (ones with messed up racks).

So it was a sad kind of "hunting" but did seem to serve a purpose.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#310

Post by int_19h »

agumonkey wrote: post #308
int_19h wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, why does it matter that "at least it requires skill", if it's not for entertainment? And why is "overpowering" a problem? An overly powerful weapon just means that there's more chance of a one-shot kill on the animal, that minimizes suffering (especially from when wounded animals escape, and then slowly die). If you mean the ability to take more game with a gun than with a bow, that is controlled by hunting li…

Suffering is not a problem to me, every creature suffers, I don't pursue it, and it's not for sport; it's for fairness. I can remove a life to feed me if I didn't abuse an unfair position. Everything has to avoid death, it's how nature balances itself, it's almost thermodynamical.. I need the others, I was built for taking and avoiding being taken. ~class struggle in a way. The skill side is a way to deserve it. Fish…

Like I said, the proper way to ensure we don't wipe anything out is licensing and tag system, which is implemented in pretty much every country, and is enforced meticulously in any developed one.

And that all is completely orthogonal to tools used. I guarantee you that if you only allowed hunting with e.g. a wooden spear, but removed any other restrictions, deer would be wiped out very quickly in US. There's just too many people, and in such a large population a subset that is both skilled and interested is "large enough".

But in any case, your original comment accused people who hunt with guns of sadism. Which very different than fairness.

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