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Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

arstechnica.com

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Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#141

Post by tapoxi »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #107
reificator wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unity is not open source Important to note, neither is Unreal really. It's not a pedantic distinction here either, as it affects how far you can take a project that modifies the core engine. Not that I'm against Unreal in any way, it's just important to keep in mind.

Yes, UE4 is not FOSS as per GNU, it is open source in that you can see the code and there's a large community contributing fixes and additions with every new version. I think the distinction is pedantic for most users.

> I think the distinction is pedantic for most users.

The distinction is that the code you write belongs to Epic. You become an unpaid contractor.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#142

Post by DATACOMMANDER »

IANAL, but if you want to include a blanket “we can change these terms at any time” clause in your TOS, it seems like you should be obligated to specify a “grandfathering” window, i.e., a length of time during which any licensee will be allowed to operate under the old terms in the event of a change. Otherwise, you’re not actually giving reasonable consideration, since you’re accepting payment in return for what could potentially be a single day (or hour, or minute) of use of your software. Furthermore, a particular licensee’s window ought to be proportional to the amount of consideration given by that licensee, i.e., the number of licenses/renewals purchases by them. How is a contract conscionable if it allows one party to become dependent on the other’s services—and to pay them accordingly—while providing for the latter’s right to suddenly withdraw support?

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#143

Post by hnbroseph »

drewnoakes wrote: post #86
Jugglerofworlds wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done a lot of work with multiplayer on Unity. Running a version of the game in the Unity engine as a server is necessary if you want your game to be authoritative to prevent cheating. Fortunately my game uses a custom server that I wrote, but this will be a huge hit to pretty much everyone else.

It says "primarily". If the game runs both server and client side, I don't think there is a problem.

before that it says "any portion of"... so "primarily" could apply (ostensibly) to a single line of code, if that is a "portion".

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#144

Post by ignaloidas »

wishinghand wrote: post #135
ignaloidas wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know yet if it is suitable for AAA studios yet, as no yet tried. But Unity itself for quite a long time was not suitable for AAA studios, and just quite recently AAA games using Unity popped up. I'd say that Godot has got the essentials, and most of what is missing is pretty easy to add yourself. Maybe the last thing that stops AAA studios from using Godot is that it still uses OpenGL ES 3.0 for rendering, b…

> most of what is missing is pretty easy to add yourself What's missing in Godot?

A common complaint is terrain. It's likely it will be added to the roadmap, but there are already plugins that add it [0]

[0] https://github.com/Zylann/godot_heightmap_plugin

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#145

Post by russley »

seanwilson wrote: post #120
ezekg wrote: post #37

> You may not directly or indirectly distribute the Unity Software, including the runtime portion of the Unity Software (the “Unity Runtime”), or your Project Content (if it incorporates the Unity Runtime) by means of streaming or broadcasting so that any portion of the Unity Software is primarily executed on or simulated by the cloud or a remote server and transmitted over the Internet or other network to end user d…

Doesn't Unreal require you to code in C++? That's a big reason why I'd avoid it when I don't require maximum performance.

UE4 has C++ and their UI based programming language called Blueprints. Unreal C++ is super powerful, but very few people actually need to use it due to some performance bottleneck.

Blueprints are actually really cool for what they are and have a bunch of interesting debugging considerations, such as being able to see the flow of "code" visually.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#146

Post by Rychard »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #107
reificator wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unity is not open source Important to note, neither is Unreal really. It's not a pedantic distinction here either, as it affects how far you can take a project that modifies the core engine. Not that I'm against Unreal in any way, it's just important to keep in mind.

Yes, UE4 is not FOSS as per GNU, it is open source in that you can see the code and there's a large community contributing fixes and additions with every new version. I think the distinction is pedantic for most users.

Isn't Unity similar in that regard? (well, as far as viewing the source-code, they don't accept patches to my understanding)

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/03/26/releasing-the-unity-c-s...

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#147

Post by Retra »

vkou wrote: post #47
EamonnMR wrote: post #11

This is why I tend to shy away from proprietary tools like Unity-an event like this is sort of like an asteroid strike, it's improbable but there's no defense against it and if it happens you are wiped out.

Do that, and your game will never ship - because developing your own engine is a beast of a timesink. The open source offerings are toys compared to Unity/Unreal.

Only if you need an engine that powerful and flexible. A toned down and simplified engine is certainly not as hard to develop.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#148

Post by DATACOMMANDER »

ac29 wrote: post #66
nothis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the problem here?

It "requires that those making the software publicly available as a service must make the service's source code available under this license".

That change seems to be in line with the FOSS ethos. I imagine that from the perspective of the FOSS community, using FOSS software in a SaaS product without releasing the code that drives the service is just a loophole.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#149

Post by DATACOMMANDER »

tcfunk wrote: post #45
mattigames wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they are running unity runtime on their servers, there is nothing in the TOS against that, what is illegal is to share any of the data from that runtime online with other Unity instances. Which has nothing to do with "re-distributing" Unity has a SAAS.

Re-distributing was the wrong word to use. But it seems to me that the Unity Runtime is a part of the stack of their SaaS.

So what?
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