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New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

reuters.com

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Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#151

Post by jessaustin »

dunpeal wrote: post #147
jessaustin wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep repeating that (probably because you've heard it repeated a lot), but it isn't true. Sanctions at most times and in most places have been pretexts for future wars. Sanctions are certainly not what have kept Russia from invading Ukraine: Ukrainians with guns and tanks have done that. Sanctions certainly have not caused Russia to give back the Crimea to Ukraine. It's like any disputed territory inhabited by mo…

> Sanctions are certainly not what have kept Russia from invading Ukraine: Ukrainians with guns and tanks have done that. The Russians have a ton more guns and tanks. Like it or not, Russians don't invade Ukraine because of repercussions, and sanctions are part of that. If we were back in 1940, the Russians would have taken over Ukraine long ago. > (The killing done by ISIS is on ours, because we created and sustaine…

It is largely because of the previous Soviet invasion that Ukrainians would today fight to the last to prevent a future Russian invasion. They themselves didn't feel the same about Crimea, because of course historically it only became a part of Ukraine in 1954, a "gift" of USSR. Russia is today surrounded by nations it theoretically (well, it might depend on the current oil price: yay fracking!) could defeat militarily. Are sanctions protecting all of those? If we assume that's possible, how could we ramp up sanctions from their already absurd levels if Russia started threatening e.g. Azerbaijan or Mongolia? Please, let's live in the real world: USA sanctions against Russia are not sustaining Ukrainian independence. As is always the case, the Ukrainians themselves are doing that.

Conspiracy theory.

AQI developed in Iraq after we had completely destroyed civil society there and created a vacuum of law and order. AQI developed into ISIS after we further disrupted both Iraq and Syria, in those regions of both nations where no one (including armies of USA, Iraq, Syria, Russia...) dared venture. For many years, most of their arms and ammunition came from American-supplied caches "stolen" from the apocryphal "good rebels" that we were repeatedly told actually existed and would kick out Assad real soon now. This is basic recent international history. How is it that you haven't kept up with this?

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#152

Post by _m96l »

jessaustin wrote: post #151
dunpeal wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sanctions are certainly not what have kept Russia from invading Ukraine: Ukrainians with guns and tanks have done that. The Russians have a ton more guns and tanks. Like it or not, Russians don't invade Ukraine because of repercussions, and sanctions are part of that. If we were back in 1940, the Russians would have taken over Ukraine long ago. > (The killing done by ISIS is on ours, because we created and sustaine…

It is largely because of the previous Soviet invasion that Ukrainians would today fight to the last to prevent a future Russian invasion. They themselves didn't feel the same about Crimea, because of course historically it only became a part of Ukraine in 1954, a "gift" of USSR. Russia is today surrounded by nations it theoretically (well, it might depend on the current oil price: yay fracking!) could defeat militari…

> It is largely because of the previous Soviet invasion that Ukrainians would today fight to the last to prevent a future Russian invasion.

Read some history of the cold war. USSR was happy to invade and subdue its weak neighbors in the past, in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s, all the way up to the 70s. It won't do the same today because of international retaliation, part of which are sanctions.

Russia had no right to invade Crimea. They just did because they had the military might to do so. If your argument is that they should be allowed to do so without consequences, then I strongly disagree. Your position makes you feel morally superior, but in reality it will pave the way to WWIII with Russia increasingly emboldened to extend militarily until an inevitable clash.

> AQI developed in Iraq after we had completely destroyed civil society there and created a vacuum of law and order.

By that logic, UK and France are responsible for the Nazi regime and all the evils it has done because they defeated Germany in WWI and created the conditions for the rise of the Nazi party.

There's a fashionable trend to blame the US as "directly responsible" for everything bad that goes on the world, by applying preposterous liability standards that nobody has ever applied to any other nation in history.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#153

Post by jessaustin »

_m96l wrote: post #152
jessaustin wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is largely because of the previous Soviet invasion that Ukrainians would today fight to the last to prevent a future Russian invasion. They themselves didn't feel the same about Crimea, because of course historically it only became a part of Ukraine in 1954, a "gift" of USSR. Russia is today surrounded by nations it theoretically (well, it might depend on the current oil price: yay fracking!) could defeat militari…

> It is largely because of the previous Soviet invasion that Ukrainians would today fight to the last to prevent a future Russian invasion. Read some history of the cold war. USSR was happy to invade and subdue its weak neighbors in the past, in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s, all the way up to the 70s. It won't do the same today because of international retaliation, part of which are sanctions. Russia had no right to invad…

You assume a great deal about my moral feelings. I am practical, and I perceive our real enemies. There is no moral component to that. Like Iran, Russia's time as a major world player is limited. It has burned through all its human resources, and now its oil is worth less and less every day. They're not going to take over Europe, and if they were it's not as if USA could stop that with either sanctions or force of arms. The drunken walk of sanctions and other threats we've employed have not served the interests of USA citizens any more than they've served the interests of Russian citizens. They have served someone's interests.

USA get the tiny amount of international criticism we receive because we keep doing the same awful misguided things while claiming that we expect different results. We aren't all crazy, so at least some of us are liars. Indeed those are the same liars who came up with the ridiculous "world police" canard of preposterous liability in the first place. Who kills whom in other hemispheres really doesn't affect us enough that we should waste our wealth and soldiers' lives pretending to do something about it.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#154

Post by boomboomsubban »

EpicEng wrote: post #149
boomboomsubban wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like the US is just an innocent judge forced to punish those naughty countries. We have now spent forty years economically attacking Iran, paid people tons of money to kill Iranians, invaded and destroyed a neighboring country, and spent the entire time threatening Iran with nuclear/non-nuclear destruction. Yet they are considered the "bad actor."

These sanctions are not unilateral actions by the US, so no, I don't "act that way". These sanctions we're passed by the UN, of which China is a permanent member.

You were very clearly talking about sanctions in general being an acceptable way of punishing "bad actors," even asking what tools "we" should use. This reply doesn't make sense.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#155

Post by EpicEng »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #154
EpicEng wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sanctions are not unilateral actions by the US, so no, I don't "act that way". These sanctions we're passed by the UN, of which China is a permanent member.

You were very clearly talking about sanctions in general being an acceptable way of punishing "bad actors," even asking what tools "we" should use. This reply doesn't make sense.

That's fair; I lost context hopping around in comments. You specifically spoke of Iran however. We've made a ton of mistakes in the region. What we haven't done is publically called for the death of everyone in their country, raised children to learn nothing but the Koran and hate for infidels, fund organizations who kill innocent civilians indiscriminantly, killed off thousands of dissenters, or murdered people for cursing Jesus or drinking alcohol or being a homosexual. If you think the US and Iran stand on the same moral ground then you're simply not a reasonable person.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#156

Post by boomboomsubban »

EpicEng wrote: post #155
boomboomsubban wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were very clearly talking about sanctions in general being an acceptable way of punishing "bad actors," even asking what tools "we" should use. This reply doesn't make sense.

That's fair; I lost context hopping around in comments. You specifically spoke of Iran however. We've made a ton of mistakes in the region. What we haven't done is publically called for the death of everyone in their country, raised children to learn nothing but the Koran and hate for infidels, fund organizations who kill innocent civilians indiscriminantly, killed off thousands of dissenters, or murdered people for…

Though I have some issues with your list, none of this gives the US the moral authority to use sanctions on Iran, an act that has led to the hardship and death of Iranian civilians. More so given all these acts are taking place after decades of sanctions.

A few particulars though.

>What we haven't done is publically called for the death of everyone in their country,

How you can view this as worse than the range of US actions that have killed thousands of Iranians confuses me.

>fund organizations who kill innocent civilians indiscriminantly

We funded the Iraq army that killed over a hundred thousand civilians.

>, killed off thousands of dissenters,

SAVAK

>If you think the US and Iran stand on the same moral ground then you're simply not a reasonable person.

This is just a small list of the horrors the US has done to Iran, ignoring what it does elsewhere. I'm not a supporter of the Iranian government, they've done some truly terrible things to their civilians. The US has done far worse to other nation's civilians, the comparison isn't even close.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#157

Post by [deleted] »

glitchc wrote: post #112
ZainRiz wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you expect China to arrest you on Chinese soil if you did something in the US that was illegal in China? If China creates a law that says "no one in the world may drive faster than 40 mph" and you, an American citizen, fly to China, can China arrest you for driving 60 mph in the USA?

The analogy is inaccurate. She broke US law and then came to the US. If you break the law in China, for example by calling Tibet (or Hong Kong) a separate state on social media, you should fully expect to be arrested the next time you travel there. Extending further, if instead of China, you travel to a country friendly to China with an extradition treaty (ex. Russia or Nigeria), China is well within its rights to de…

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