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Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

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Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#141

Post by dogma1138 »

zorga wrote: post #126
dogma1138 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we start with not allowing people to legally kidnap individuals? I never understood the whole concept of “bounty hunters” in the US it’s not the Wild West anymore. The problem here is that “fugitive recovery” doesn’t need to meet any of the standards normal law enforcement does and unless they kill someone or injure bystanders there likely won’t be an investigation into their conduct and even if there is on…

> How about we start with not allowing people to legally kidnap individuals? Then you'd have to give up being able to afford bail; without bounty hunters, bondsman would have no recourse when you didn't show up to court and thus not much incentive to loan you bail money. You're not being legally kidnapped, you agreed to those terms when you borrowed the bond money for bail.

The bail system itself is abhorrent if there isn’t a reason to lock you up until trial then you shouldn’t be locked up, if there is you shouldn’t be able to buy your way out.

Most other countries have figured out how to serve justice without a system that discriminates against the poor.

Too many people can’t afford the down payment or can offer a collateral to get a bail financed those who can end up being indebted to them you are advocating for the legalization of loan sharks.

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#142

Post by zorga »

dogma1138 wrote: post #141
zorga wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about we start with not allowing people to legally kidnap individuals? Then you'd have to give up being able to afford bail; without bounty hunters, bondsman would have no recourse when you didn't show up to court and thus not much incentive to loan you bail money. You're not being legally kidnapped, you agreed to those terms when you borrowed the bond money for bail.

The bail system itself is abhorrent if there isn’t a reason to lock you up until trial then you shouldn’t be locked up, if there is you shouldn’t be able to buy your way out. Most other countries have figured out how to serve justice without a system that discriminates against the poor. Too many people can’t afford the down payment or can offer a collateral to get a bail financed those who can end up being indebted t…

Most other countries don't have our intractable political system; bondsman solve a problem, they let people get out of jail when the government is being absurd.

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#143

Post by sigfubar »

techsupporter wrote: post #27
Scoundreller wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve set up a DID that leads directly to a voicemail box that emails me the recording. It’s worth the $1/month expense to have a number to hand out to people I don’t want to be available to. And, in a way, it keeps me available when I’m overseas and don’t have my usual SIM card installed. I use VoIP.ms

What gets me are all of the places (like Venmo, et al) who pitch a fit if a user dares give them a not-a-real-mobile-number. Even if the number is SMS-capable, they complain. I wonder if the fact that services like this won't work on VoIP numbers is a reason why. Regardless of the motivation, it's annoying because I don't give out my real mobile number to hardly anyone for this--and spam call/text avoidance--reason.

I use my Russian cell phone number when the Google Voice burner won’t work.

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#144

Post by craftyguy »

chii wrote: post #115
jonahhorowitz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding: You should still be able to use services, without consenting to them selling your data, like you can under the GDPR.

Would your tune change if by not agreeing to sell your own data, the service charges you money?

> the service charges you money

They (mobile carriers) already do charge me money... What's your point?

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#145

Post by dogma1138 »

zorga wrote: post #140
pjc50 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bail money isn't an essential part of the system either. Most other countries have radically different systems; in the U.K. it's unconditional and free for minor offenses with escalating conditions (and violence may result in no bail at all). https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/bail

It's essential in a system where changes to how government operates largely aren't possible due to partisan divides; bondsman are a free market solution to absurd government policies on bail. When you can't fix the government, you go around them. btw, that wasn't me that down voted you.

The majority of bail isn’t prescribed at the federal level plenty of states can go way with it if they wanted too.

The whole concept of bail shouldn’t have a place in a modern society.

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#146

Post by zorga »

dogma1138 wrote: post #145
zorga wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's essential in a system where changes to how government operates largely aren't possible due to partisan divides; bondsman are a free market solution to absurd government policies on bail. When you can't fix the government, you go around them. btw, that wasn't me that down voted you.

The majority of bail isn’t prescribed at the federal level plenty of states can go way with it if they wanted too. The whole concept of bail shouldn’t have a place in a modern society.

No one said anything about the federal government; state governments are just as absurd and just as divided.

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#147

Post by dogma1138 »

zorga wrote: post #142
dogma1138 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bail system itself is abhorrent if there isn’t a reason to lock you up until trial then you shouldn’t be locked up, if there is you shouldn’t be able to buy your way out. Most other countries have figured out how to serve justice without a system that discriminates against the poor. Too many people can’t afford the down payment or can offer a collateral to get a bail financed those who can end up being indebted t…

Most other countries don't have our intractable political system; bondsman solve a problem, they let people get out of jail when the government is being absurd.

And do you think the bondsmen don’t have an incentive to keep the status quo?

It’s a multi billion dollar industry which effectively taxes the poor.

Make bounties illegal and it fill fall, once it falls the entire bail system in the US will have to be rethought as there isn’t a way to lock so many people up, more judges will release them until trial without setting a bail which they can already legally do and do so for minor offenses.

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#148

Post by geggam »

cc439 wrote: post #121
dragonwriter wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a scummy business but without it bail bonds wouldn't exist, or at least be as widely available as they are today. And...is that bad? The availability of bonds factors in to the level at which bail in a money bail system is set to give reasonable assurance of compliance, so the main effect of available bail bonds is to make purchasing a bond instead of paying cash necessary by driving up money bail prices. > Ma…

I wasn't aware that California eliminated the cash bail shstem last year but my cursory review of its replacement leaves me thinking its lacking in its ability to both accurately identify those who pose a risk to society or a general flight risk. Replacing a system that allows anyone granted the right of bail to obtain it (via bail bonds) with enforcement carried out via the threat of physical apprehension with one t…

Innocent until proven guilty is still a thing. If the judge is inclined to permit bail then the accused is likely not a danger to society. Bail is nothing more than incentive for the state to prosecute people for money.

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#149

Post by kevincrane »

Whitestrake wrote: post #125
21 wrote: post #65

Are we gonna talk about the Silicon Valley VC's investing in these shady companies? > Zumigo is a pioneer of mobile services providing _deeper insights_ into consumer behavior to help secure transactions, devices and identities. https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/zumigo > Intel Capital > Aligned Partners

Investors are gonna invest, right? They're there to make money. Presumably they believe the company's operations are legal and likely to provide returns.

VCs have a choice in whether or not to invest in unethical things. If they pay money to an unethical cause, that's them supporting it.

Re: Mobile customer location data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters

#150

Post by User23 »

dogma1138 wrote: post #128
User23 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of bounty hunting cases are going to the addict/drunk’s door and reminding him he’s got a hearing to be at. The kind of glorifications you see on the teevee are virtually nonexistent. As for the privacy aspect, well online privacy is observably a fiction and it always has been. Only naifs and fools believe otherwise in the face of overwhelming evidence. Sure there ought to be privacy online in some…

>The vast majority of bounty hunting cases are going to the addict/drunk’s door and reminding him he’s got a hearing to be at. The kind of glorifications you see on the teevee are virtually nonexistent. I somehow doubt that's what they make the money on because they make money on bail skippers usually a percentage of the set bail. In any case if you need someone to appear in court there is something we call a police…

You do realize the fugitives in question voluntarily entered into a contract with the bondsman right? Frankly, getting driven to the court appearance is a mild and totally appropriate response to the default. It’s way better for the fugitive than having the marshals called in.
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