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New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

reuters.com

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Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#81

Post by rgbrenner »

syntaxing wrote: post #74

Warranted or not, sanctions can be seen as one step before war. It's an effective method to hit them where it hurts (their pockets) without creating casualties directly. The whole point of sanctions is to drive the enemies GDP down on purpose to "flex your arms". It does not matter whether the sanctioned goods are dangerous or not. Once again, the ultimate goal is to smother their GDP growth. And like all foreign pol…

Important point, these were UN sanctions that Huawei was violating. That means China also agreed to them.. and not in some minor vote... they are a permanent member of the UN Security Council, and therefore have a veto they could have used to reject it entirely... and they don't need anyones permission to use their veto. So it's safe to say China also agreed to sanction Iran, which they failed to do.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#82

Post by stordoff »

manfredo wrote: post #48
shittyadmin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a country's laws - Huawei is a Chinese company, it's not Chinese prosecutors going after Huawei. Companies should not be subject to the laws of arbitrary countries. Would you say US copyright laws should be applied globally too?

Yes, copyright is a good analogy: I don't get to legally torrent non-American works just because they're foreign. And if I did breach the copyright laws of a country with which the US has no extradition treaty, I absolutely could be persecuted if I travel to that country.

That's not quite the same because we recognise the copyright in domestic law. American copyright laws aren't being directly applied in other countries - different countries can have different laws on dealing with copyrighted material.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#83

Post by rgbrenner »

shittyadmin wrote: post #25

What a joke, if companies in unrelated countries don't want to play by sanctions, I see no reason to hold it against them. Unrelated states should have no power over this. The amount of hate Huawei gets just for this from otherwise reasonable people is rather excessive.

These were UN sanctions passed by the UN Security Council. China is a permanent member of the SC and has the ability to unilaterally veto any action. They voted in favor of the sanctions that Huawei violated. So Huawei violated Chinese law and US law (by involving US companies)... it's just that the Chinese don't care to enforce the sanctions they agreed to.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#84

Post by ars »

malvosenior wrote: post #53
ams6110 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is much closer to the western point of view on human rights for one thing. It's OK for there to be an objective right and wrong in a conflict.

Many, many people would see the forced formation of a new country over the top of an existing country, against their will, as objectively wrong.

> over the top of an existing country

There was no existing country, it was British territory, and Ottoman, and others. The last time the place was an independent country it was part of the ancient Kingdom of Israel, around 2,200 years ago. And now it's an independent Israel again.

Same place, same people, same name, same capital. Different laws and government though.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#85

Post by rgbrenner »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #72
lamarpye wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a company's business practices should supersede a country's laws. Does this apply to only to sanctions? How about environmental laws?

Huawei didn't break any laws in China or Iran. They're not at war, China isn't sanctioning Iran. Huawei isn't even allowed to do business in the US at the moment, so they shouldn't be subjected to US laws, yet here we are, with the US attempting to force their sovereignty over others. Surprised that China hasn't retaliated yet, they could do some major damage to US interests if they wanted.

China agreed to sanction Iran when they voted in favor of multiple UN sanctions. As a permanent member of the UN security council, they could have vetoed it.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#86

Post by xster »

austinheap wrote: post #30
rgbrenner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of the sanctions is to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. The sanctions cause economic harm, forcing Iran to the negotiating table. It's not anyone's goal to overthrow Iran. No one want to clean up the mess. There are already enough messes in that region already (afghanistan, iraq, syria, yemen).

America has been diligently trying to overthrow the Iranian government for nearly 70 years, _long_ before Iran started their nuclear program in 1970: In 1953, the CIA baited the Iranian coup d'état by covertly supporting pro-shaw groups. The shaw was then overthrown in 1979, bringing Khomeini to power as the Supreme Leader. Our role in the later Iranian revolution isn't as clear, yet. After that the 2009 Persian Awak…

s/their nuclear program/our nuclear program.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RS21592.pdf

The US puppet planning to start building 23 nuclear power plants in the 70s were based on US support to create a US friendly power-base in the middle east.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#87

Post by boomboomsubban »

syntaxing wrote: post #74

Warranted or not, sanctions can be seen as one step before war. It's an effective method to hit them where it hurts (their pockets) without creating casualties directly. The whole point of sanctions is to drive the enemies GDP down on purpose to "flex your arms". It does not matter whether the sanctioned goods are dangerous or not. Once again, the ultimate goal is to smother their GDP growth. And like all foreign pol…

>The US has laws and I expect our justice department to arrest those who break our laws regardless of their nationality if they step into our country (or allies).

Do you expect every citizen of a town to be punished because the store ownet broke the law then? As that's the equivalent of sanctions.

>The WTO submitted a report last year about the efficacy of sanctions (and it happens to be on Iran) for those curious

This report completely ignores the morality of sanctions, waving it away by saying it's preferable to war, and still finds sanctions largely ineffective.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#88

Post by gcbw2 »

rgbrenner wrote: post #81
syntaxing wrote: post #74

Warranted or not, sanctions can be seen as one step before war. It's an effective method to hit them where it hurts (their pockets) without creating casualties directly. The whole point of sanctions is to drive the enemies GDP down on purpose to "flex your arms". It does not matter whether the sanctioned goods are dangerous or not. Once again, the ultimate goal is to smother their GDP growth. And like all foreign pol…

Important point, these were UN sanctions that Huawei was violating. That means China also agreed to them.. and not in some minor vote... they are a permanent member of the UN Security Council, and therefore have a veto they could have used to reject it entirely... and they don't need anyones permission to use their veto. So it's safe to say China also agreed to sanction Iran, which they failed to do.

Doesn't to appear to be a U.N. sanction, maybe it is indeed "only" a US sanction.

the last UN resolution lifts all sanctions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolut...

> United Nations Security Council Resolution 2231 - Passed 20 July 2015. Endorsed the Iran Nuclear Deal and lifted all previous sanctions on Iran provided that Iran remains in compliance with its responsibilities in the nuclear deal.

(just went to wikipedia now, not an authority on the subject)

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#89

Post by 1024core »

syntaxing wrote: post #74

Warranted or not, sanctions can be seen as one step before war. It's an effective method to hit them where it hurts (their pockets) without creating casualties directly. The whole point of sanctions is to drive the enemies GDP down on purpose to "flex your arms". It does not matter whether the sanctioned goods are dangerous or not. Once again, the ultimate goal is to smother their GDP growth. And like all foreign pol…

> It's an effective method to hit them where it hurts (their pockets) without creating casualties directly.

That's not always the case. The sanctions against Iraq, put in place around 1991 (after Gulf War 1), lead to the deaths of 1000s upon 1000s of children, as hospitals couldn't acquire critical supplies like incubators.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#90

Post by EpicEng »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #87
syntaxing wrote: post #74

Warranted or not, sanctions can be seen as one step before war. It's an effective method to hit them where it hurts (their pockets) without creating casualties directly. The whole point of sanctions is to drive the enemies GDP down on purpose to "flex your arms". It does not matter whether the sanctioned goods are dangerous or not. Once again, the ultimate goal is to smother their GDP growth. And like all foreign pol…

>The US has laws and I expect our justice department to arrest those who break our laws regardless of their nationality if they step into our country (or allies). Do you expect every citizen of a town to be punished because the store ownet broke the law then? As that's the equivalent of sanctions. >The WTO submitted a report last year about the efficacy of sanctions (and it happens to be on Iran) for those curious Th…

So what's your suggestion? Country X won't play nice, what do you do? given your moral stance on sanctions I can't imagine you would propose war. So what are the options? What tools do we have available to us to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons and persuade bad actors?

The world isn't some idyllic place where there's always a solution to every problem which harms no one. Yes, the citizenry often gets caught up in this sort of thing, but again, what are the alternatives? Let them do as they please and hope everything works out?

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