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New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

reuters.com

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Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#71

Post by lawnchair_larry »

idbehold wrote: post #62
shittyadmin wrote: post #25

What a joke, if companies in unrelated countries don't want to play by sanctions, I see no reason to hold it against them. Unrelated states should have no power over this. The amount of hate Huawei gets just for this from otherwise reasonable people is rather excessive.

> Huawei, U.S. authorities assert, retained control of Skycom, using it to sell telecom equipment to Iran and move money out via the international banking system. As a result of the deception, U.S. authorities say, banks unwittingly cleared hundreds of millions of dollars of transactions that potentially violated economic sanctions Washington had in place at the time against doing business with Iran. > [...] In the U…

That’s really the same thing though. It is quite a stretch of the definition of fraud. Nobody was out any money. They just lied to the bank about how they were using the money. It seems like that is not the bank’s concern anyway, and the bank suffered no harm. If there is more to it than that, I’d be curious to know.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#72

Post by Mikeb85 »

lamarpye wrote: post #28
shittyadmin wrote: post #25

What a joke, if companies in unrelated countries don't want to play by sanctions, I see no reason to hold it against them. Unrelated states should have no power over this. The amount of hate Huawei gets just for this from otherwise reasonable people is rather excessive.

So a company's business practices should supersede a country's laws. Does this apply to only to sanctions? How about environmental laws?

Huawei didn't break any laws in China or Iran. They're not at war, China isn't sanctioning Iran. Huawei isn't even allowed to do business in the US at the moment, so they shouldn't be subjected to US laws, yet here we are, with the US attempting to force their sovereignty over others. Surprised that China hasn't retaliated yet, they could do some major damage to US interests if they wanted.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#73

Post by paulmd »

This is from 5+ years ago, you gotta ask why this is being released now.

I can see why it's a bad idea to have Chinese gear in our networks, but this is something completely unrelated except in the vague sense of "china bad". You can argue for getting Huawei out of our networks on their own merit without this crap.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#74

Post by syntaxing »

Warranted or not, sanctions can be seen as one step before war. It's an effective method to hit them where it hurts (their pockets) without creating casualties directly. The whole point of sanctions is to drive the enemies GDP down on purpose to "flex your arms". It does not matter whether the sanctioned goods are dangerous or not. Once again, the ultimate goal is to smother their GDP growth. And like all foreign policy tools, it's meant to be political. The US has laws and I expect our justice department to arrest those who break our laws regardless of their nationality if they step into our country (or allies). Just like how the Chinese would arrest any US citizen if we break their laws when we step into their country.

The WTO submitted a report last year about the efficacy of sanctions (and it happens to be on Iran) for those curious [1].

[1] https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/reser_e/ersd201803_e.pdf

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#75

Post by cronix »

tivert wrote: post #50
curiousgal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup we can only achieve world peace if it's just us who owns nuclear weapons. If the goal is really that, the U.S. wouldn't be flashing its nuclear arsenal.

The more people there are who can choose to use nuclear weapons, the greater the chance that someone will actually choose to use them.

Especially when one of the countries has vowed, time and time again, to wipe another country off the map.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#76

Post by lamarpye »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #40
excalibur wrote: post #32

Yeah, and ISIS has been fighting with American weapons for years. Hypocrisy much?

The stupid part is: Why is Iran forbidden from buying telecommunication equipment? God forbid evil Iranians using using smartphones or the Internet.

The good people at Huawei would never allow/enable the evil government of Iran to spy on the Iranian people.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#77

Post by idbehold »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #71
idbehold wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huawei, U.S. authorities assert, retained control of Skycom, using it to sell telecom equipment to Iran and move money out via the international banking system. As a result of the deception, U.S. authorities say, banks unwittingly cleared hundreds of millions of dollars of transactions that potentially violated economic sanctions Washington had in place at the time against doing business with Iran. > [...] In the U…

That’s really the same thing though. It is quite a stretch of the definition of fraud. Nobody was out any money. They just lied to the bank about how they were using the money. It seems like that is not the bank’s concern anyway, and the bank suffered no harm. If there is more to it than that, I’d be curious to know.

In what way is that not fraud?

Fraud - wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

No one has to be "out any money" for fraud to occur.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#78

Post by ABCLAW »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #71
idbehold wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huawei, U.S. authorities assert, retained control of Skycom, using it to sell telecom equipment to Iran and move money out via the international banking system. As a result of the deception, U.S. authorities say, banks unwittingly cleared hundreds of millions of dollars of transactions that potentially violated economic sanctions Washington had in place at the time against doing business with Iran. > [...] In the U…

That’s really the same thing though. It is quite a stretch of the definition of fraud. Nobody was out any money. They just lied to the bank about how they were using the money. It seems like that is not the bank’s concern anyway, and the bank suffered no harm. If there is more to it than that, I’d be curious to know.

No, there's less to it than that:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1344

You aren't allowed to lie to the bank if you're getting money out of them, even if they are made whole. Them being made whole may prevent them from exercising a number of tortious claims against you, but that doesn't mean what you've done isn't independently illegal.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#79

Post by mthoms »

gpm wrote: post #61
Udik wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deal was negotiated and signed by US, Russia, China, France, UK, Germany, EU; and it is based on the "IAEA safeguards", a system of inspection and verification of the peaceful uses of nuclear materials as part of the NPT. To suggest that all the major world powers would have signed a deal that leaves space for Iran to develop nuclear weapons, and that the IAEA might have been happily certifying the compliance to…

> we have reports and information that proves that the claims are not true I don't this is an accurate summary, rather it says > we don't have reports and information that proves Iran is continuing to develop weapons. And why would they? They aren't a spy agency, they are a monitoring agency. Assuming for the sake of argument that Iran was actively developing nuclear weapons they would have had to fuck up for the IAE…

But wouldn't the development of weapons require the diversion of nuclear materials? Surely the IAEA are monitoring that very closely. I would have thought that to be one of their primary responsibilities.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#80

Post by jpollock »

paulmd wrote: post #73

This is from 5+ years ago, you gotta ask why this is being released now . I can see why it's a bad idea to have Chinese gear in our networks, but this is something completely unrelated except in the vague sense of "china bad". You can argue for getting Huawei out of our networks on their own merit without this crap.

This is related to Huawei's CFO's arrest in Canada and pending hearing to decide if she will be extradited to the USA.
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