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New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

reuters.com

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Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#21

Post by austinheap »

duaoebg wrote: post #14
austinheap wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of most sanctions, from a diplomatic perspective, is to place enormous financial pressure on an economy so that the population revolts agains the government in question. It's believed that when the "price of onions" becomes too high for a society to tolerate, revolution occurs. I'm not saying the world is/isn't a better place, just explaining the common beltway logic re: Iran sanctions.

Sanctions often have the reverse effect by entrenching state power and creating a outside force upon which to blame the problems. I.e. these onions cost a fortune because of the evil Americans. Also the US does not have a great track record with inciting revolutions in Iran.

Foreign advisories have all kinds of failed/stupid strategies for inducing revolution! Hasn't stopped America from a never-ending sanction game with Iran or Russia from a never-ending election game with America or China from... the list goes on and on.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#22

Post by rgbrenner »

austinheap wrote: post #9
simplecomplex wrote: post #4

Can someone explain how the world is a better place by outlawing business with Iran? Remember, the crime here is selling telecom equipment...

The goal of most sanctions, from a diplomatic perspective, is to place enormous financial pressure on an economy so that the population revolts agains the government in question. It's believed that when the "price of onions" becomes too high for a society to tolerate, revolution occurs. I'm not saying the world is/isn't a better place, just explaining the common beltway logic re: Iran sanctions.

The goal of the sanctions is to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. The sanctions cause economic harm, forcing Iran to the negotiating table.

It's not anyone's goal to overthrow Iran. No one want to clean up the mess. There are already enough messes in that region already (afghanistan, iraq, syria, yemen).

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#23

Post by koube »

austinheap wrote: post #16
koube wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an easier way to do it that required no effort on the part of the current administration, which is to just not cancel the Iran deal. > By torpedoing U.S. adherence to the accord, Trump has all but guaranteed its collapse, a move that opens the door to the unfettered resumption of Iran’s nuclear program and unleashes unpredictable escalatory pressures in an already volatile Middle East. https://www.brookings.e…

[flagged]

Brookings and Rand are considered centrist, Rand sometimes center left, and Cato is conservative. I linked them because the case has already been made on the left, the case is usually being made to the right, so conservative sources would be relevant here.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#24

Post by Udik »

gpm wrote: post #8
simplecomplex wrote: post #4

Can someone explain how the world is a better place by outlawing business with Iran? Remember, the crime here is selling telecom equipment...

The world is a better [0] place if less people have nuclear weapons. "Outlawing business" (i.e. sanctions) are being used to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. Thus it improves the world [1]. [0] Better is somewhat subjective I suppose, but I think we can pretty objectively say "more likely to hold a human civilization 100 years from now". [1] It also undoubtedly makes the world worse in other ways, whether…

> "Outlawing business" (i.e. sanctions) are being used to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.

If you're talking about the current US sanctions, I think you're wrong. The deal ensured Iran could not develop nuclear weapons, through a strict regime of inspections. Without the deal, there are no inspections anymore and Iran is free to develop said weapons.

It seems that the real purpose of the sanctions is to weaken Iran so that its enemies in the region (Israel, Saudi Arabia) have a freer hand in doing as they please.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#25

Post by shittyadmin »

What a joke, if companies in unrelated countries don't want to play by sanctions, I see no reason to hold it against them. Unrelated states should have no power over this. The amount of hate Huawei gets just for this from otherwise reasonable people is rather excessive.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#27

Post by acali »

austinheap wrote: post #16
koube wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an easier way to do it that required no effort on the part of the current administration, which is to just not cancel the Iran deal. > By torpedoing U.S. adherence to the accord, Trump has all but guaranteed its collapse, a move that opens the door to the unfettered resumption of Iran’s nuclear program and unleashes unpredictable escalatory pressures in an already volatile Middle East. https://www.brookings.e…

[flagged]

The quotes are by individuals associated with the organizations, it doesn't appear to be the official position of the think-tanks. I think it is unfair to call the Brookings Institute a "right-wing pay-to-play lobbying group" but you are just sourcing from a left-leaning activist group.

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#28

Post by lamarpye »

shittyadmin wrote: post #25

What a joke, if companies in unrelated countries don't want to play by sanctions, I see no reason to hold it against them. Unrelated states should have no power over this. The amount of hate Huawei gets just for this from otherwise reasonable people is rather excessive.

So a company's business practices should supersede a country's laws. Does this apply to only to sanctions? How about environmental laws?

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#29

Post by gpm »

Udik wrote: post #24
gpm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is a better [0] place if less people have nuclear weapons. "Outlawing business" (i.e. sanctions) are being used to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. Thus it improves the world [1]. [0] Better is somewhat subjective I suppose, but I think we can pretty objectively say "more likely to hold a human civilization 100 years from now". [1] It also undoubtedly makes the world worse in other ways, whether…

> "Outlawing business" (i.e. sanctions) are being used to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. If you're talking about the current US sanctions, I think you're wrong. The deal ensured Iran could not develop nuclear weapons, through a strict regime of inspections. Without the deal, there are no inspections anymore and Iran is free to develop said weapons. It seems that the real purpose of the sanctions is to w…

I'm talking about the sanctions that the article is, i.e. the pre-deal ones that Meng Wanzhou is accused of violating.

That said, the stated reason for the current sanctions is still nuclear weapons [0]. An accurate evaluation of why the US chose to withdraw from that deal is probably not possible with publicly available information. The limited analysis in your comment seems to assume that the deal was effective, something I don't think we have enough information to reliably evaluate, but I consider unlikely.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/us/politics/trump-speech-...

Re: New documents link Huawei to suspected front companies in Iran, Syria

#30

Post by austinheap »

rgbrenner wrote: post #22
austinheap wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of most sanctions, from a diplomatic perspective, is to place enormous financial pressure on an economy so that the population revolts agains the government in question. It's believed that when the "price of onions" becomes too high for a society to tolerate, revolution occurs. I'm not saying the world is/isn't a better place, just explaining the common beltway logic re: Iran sanctions.

The goal of the sanctions is to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. The sanctions cause economic harm, forcing Iran to the negotiating table. It's not anyone's goal to overthrow Iran. No one want to clean up the mess. There are already enough messes in that region already (afghanistan, iraq, syria, yemen).

America has been diligently trying to overthrow the Iranian government for nearly 70 years, _long_ before Iran started their nuclear program in 1970:

In 1953, the CIA baited the Iranian coup d'état by covertly supporting pro-shaw groups. The shaw was then overthrown in 1979, bringing Khomeini to power as the Supreme Leader. Our role in the later Iranian revolution isn't as clear, yet. After that the 2009 Persian Awakening was additionally supported by the states.

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