Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion • Hacker News Board

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#71

Post by atomi » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #26

p1necone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the alternative is hospitals treating them anyway and sending out bills that will never get paid - ultimately costing society even more. Unless you actually think illegal immigrants should just be left to die when they have medical issues? I sure hope not.

The alternatives are sending them home - or - giving them citizenship. Suppose you do the later - whoops (!) - as soon as the workers are citizens, and employers have to pay full benefits, and worry about unions ... then they'll dump such new citizens and hire actual illegal workers! Point being: the price of that cheap labour is a function of their illegal status more than anything. It's a false dynamic. Just enforc…

A lot of housing and infrastructure development done by small businesses just won't get done if the price of labor or material becomes too high. In areas of California where development is rampant and growth is fast paced cheap labor is in high demand.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#72

Post by atomi » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

imperialyuma wrote: post #39

sabujp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how many citizens and legal migrants do you know are going to work in backbreaking conditions picking the food you eat for minimum wage? Cheap robots haven't caught up yet to pick and grow everything we need. Also note that not everyone can pay whole food prices

Throwaway because I don’t want this associated with me publically. I grew up in the Imperial Valley, California and graduated from CUHS the year after the recession hit. At the time I had no prospects, I wasn’t a software developer, I didn’t have the grades or money for college outside IVC and neither did many of my classmates. No fewer than 7-10 people my age, my class, were working the fields nearby the winter afte…

Yeah I bet, just not enough to meet the demand.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#73

Post by nikdaheratik » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 3:17 AM UTC

rhegart wrote: post #55

nikdaheratik wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an awful lot of anec-data and not much actual fact here. The people who deal with the problems mostly think this plan is a good idea. Perhaps you should think about why that is rather than bringing your own personal issues and biases into this discussion.

Which part is not a fact? That it costs $10k per illegal kid in California schools which are ranked 49th in the country? Down from near the top 20 years ago? That our schools are overflowing and getting worse in Los Angeles County, the epicenter of the problems, the schools are so bad that everyone is moving to charters. That illegal kids are covered by medi-cal until they come of age? That we fund health clinics? Th…

You also talked about your cousin. About some made up homeless people living in cars that you gave no reference for. You then cherry picked a few cost numbers on costs for schools with no source or context for those numbers. Are those costs out of line with other schools in the state? You don't say.

Also, you completely ignored the fact that public school attendence is compulsory, and that children literally have no say in where their parents choose to take them. So you're basically advocating that immigrants come here and break the law to save a hypothetical amount of tax money you claim CA can't afford. All to basically punish the children of immigrants and refugees that have no say or control over any of this.

Also, what's the alternative? A bunch of sick kids getting no health care and getting their peers sick, some of whom are undoubtedly Americans. Your points don't make any sense and you have to make up alot of nonsense to try and make it look sensible. But clearly people who disagree with you are the ones who have a lack in "critical thinking". SMH.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#74

Post by sonnyblarney » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 3:31 AM UTC

atomi wrote: post #71

sonnyblarney wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternatives are sending them home - or - giving them citizenship. Suppose you do the later - whoops (!) - as soon as the workers are citizens, and employers have to pay full benefits, and worry about unions ... then they'll dump such new citizens and hire actual illegal workers! Point being: the price of that cheap labour is a function of their illegal status more than anything. It's a false dynamic. Just enforc…

A lot of housing and infrastructure development done by small businesses just won't get done if the price of labor or material becomes too high. In areas of California where development is rampant and growth is fast paced cheap labor is in high demand.

Yes, if America doesn't have a class of serfs with no healthcare, no rights, who can be treated poorly because they can't complain - a whole bunch of work can't done.

However will we survive without our slaves?

Sorry, I jest ... but that's the essential nature of the argument.

If you make those illegal workers citizens ... then they will be immediately 'too expensive'.

Either people are citizens with rights, or are not.

Let's not create two systems.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#75

Post by sonnyblarney » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 3:37 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #33

sonnyblarney wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternatives are sending them home - or - giving them citizenship. Suppose you do the later - whoops (!) - as soon as the workers are citizens, and employers have to pay full benefits, and worry about unions ... then they'll dump such new citizens and hire actual illegal workers! Point being: the price of that cheap labour is a function of their illegal status more than anything. It's a false dynamic. Just enforc…

One issue with this approach is that enforcing labor laws is already difficult.

It's very easy to enforce the law, it only takes a little bit of political will.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#76

Post by atomi » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 3:16 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #74

atomi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of housing and infrastructure development done by small businesses just won't get done if the price of labor or material becomes too high. In areas of California where development is rampant and growth is fast paced cheap labor is in high demand.

Yes, if America doesn't have a class of serfs with no healthcare, no rights, who can be treated poorly because they can't complain - a whole bunch of work can't done. However will we survive without our slaves? Sorry, I jest ... but that's the essential nature of the argument. If you make those illegal workers citizens ... then they will be immediately 'too expensive'. Either people are citizens with rights, or are n…

I think you went from a 1 to a 10 real quick. No one is talking about slavery. Here in California there are armies of lawyers making sure immigrants are treated fairly and paid a minimum wage - especially in farm work.