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Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

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Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#81

Post by will_brown »

austenallred wrote: post #76

Yes. I am the co-founder of Lambda School - (YC S17 - a CS education where the school doesn’t get paid unless you get a good job). Right now we see about 3 students/day get hired. You’ll likely hear a lot of people talking about how the market for juniors is flooded. That is partially true, but it’s flooded with people who cannot code . If you can actually be a productive employee I literally know 100 companies that…

>Right now we see about 3 students/day get hired.

Do you have some salary statistics (maybe broken down by market) for your grads?

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#82

Post by 52-6F-62 »

1_player wrote: post #8

As a sibling commenter said, define web developer first. I can see two viable, yet very different definitions: 1. Frontend web engineer: Versed in HTML, CSS, modern Javascript libraries such as React, Vue, Angular. This is a programming role first and foremost, better paying than #2, and what I would suggest focusing on. 2. "Classic web developer": Versed in HTML, CSS and just enough JS/jQuery. Knows the inside out o…

I personally can't stand doing number 2, and I do as little of number 1 as is necessary these days, but that said...

there is a ton of room for number two still. Maybe not in the heart of Silicon Valley, but other major cities—sure. There are a ton of businesses operating using WordPress as their primary platform because it's relatively easy for non-technical or semi-technical users to wrap their heads around.

Here in Toronto there are a lot of thriving WordPress/PHP-stack shops that service those businesses so that they don't have to hire their own web team. I would never want to work with one because I personally really don't like working with that stuff. 100-foot pole sort of situation— but they're there, and they pay okay for the local market.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#83

Post by tomxor »

osrec wrote: post #79

Hell yes! Just don't try and be the guy making 3 page info sites for your local gardener/bakery/whatever. There's simply no money in that, as they can do that themselves for free with an online website builder, so the value add from a good dev is minimal. Once you've honed your skills, focus on the more complex, bespoke projects. Become good at delivering on time and try to find clients that wish to invest in tech to…

> Just don't try and be the guy making 3 page info sites for your local gardener/bakery/whatever.

This, THIS! Many web devs do a bit of this starting out and that's fine... just don't try to make it into something more, not only because it's worthless and the clients will drive you nuts by chasing them for petty bills but because you will also get bored out of your mind. Get involved in, or start a more significant project as soon as possible (Even FOSS for no money is better for your experience than wasting more time on these).

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#84

Post by protonimitate »

gwbas1c wrote: post #80
avip wrote: post #14

>Six months sounds like a lot No, it does not. Learning new skill from scratch takes time. You're trying to master 2 new, orthogonal, in some sense contradictory skills: web development, and self-promotion (to find your place in "the job market"). Take a deep breath.

Considering how little I knew after a 4-year Bachelor's degree, 6 months of nights and weekends is insignificant.

I don't think it's directly comparable.

There's a difference, and not insignificant, between "learning everything for CS degree" vs "learning what you need to get hired as a web dev".

But I'll agree that 6 months is not that much time in the "learn new career skills and find a job" timeline. I spent around 18 months of nights/weekend practice and learning, followed by 3 months of interview prep before I found a job and that was with a big spoonful of luck.

To OP - this is a marathon, not a sprint. Get used to learning things on your own, you will be doing it for the rest of your career if you make the switch.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#85

Post by Raphmedia »

osrec wrote: post #79

Hell yes! Just don't try and be the guy making 3 page info sites for your local gardener/bakery/whatever. There's simply no money in that, as they can do that themselves for free with an online website builder, so the value add from a good dev is minimal. Once you've honed your skills, focus on the more complex, bespoke projects. Become good at delivering on time and try to find clients that wish to invest in tech to…

> as they can do that themselves for free with an online website builder, so the value add from a good dev is minimal.

And on the opposite side, it is quite easy to start a business of creating websites using those tools with minimum knowledge. I know a few people who started from that and eventually moved to more complex projects.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#86

Post by austenallred »

will_brown wrote: post #81
austenallred wrote: post #76

Yes. I am the co-founder of Lambda School - (YC S17 - a CS education where the school doesn’t get paid unless you get a good job). Right now we see about 3 students/day get hired. You’ll likely hear a lot of people talking about how the market for juniors is flooded. That is partially true, but it’s flooded with people who cannot code . If you can actually be a productive employee I literally know 100 companies that…

>Right now we see about 3 students/day get hired. Do you have some salary statistics (maybe broken down by market) for your grads?

https://lambdaschool.com/outcomes

We need to do a better job of breaking it down geographically, but it’s what you’d expect. $100k+ in SFBA, big salaries in cities, lower salaries (but actually higher standard of living) in smaller cities.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#87

Post by demarq »

I think the variable here is you, rather than the industry. Focus on being beyond mediocre and build up a small but well-executed portfolio and you will (almost) never have to look for a job again.

I know it's anecdotal but here is my story: I'm used to hearing that my friends are looking for work, and some tell me about how many applications they have sent out.

I went on to LinkedIn and ticked the checkbox that says I'm available for hiring, and I got a bunch of recruiters asking for a chance to speak with me. I'm now going to a new job where I'll earn what a typical senior exec earns in my country.

Tell me that's not powerful.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#88

Post by rossdavidh »

ehnto wrote: post #38
1_player wrote: post #8

As a sibling commenter said, define web developer first. I can see two viable, yet very different definitions: 1. Frontend web engineer: Versed in HTML, CSS, modern Javascript libraries such as React, Vue, Angular. This is a programming role first and foremost, better paying than #2, and what I would suggest focusing on. 2. "Classic web developer": Versed in HTML, CSS and just enough JS/jQuery. Knows the inside out o…

It is weird that you consider frontend frameworks programming but CMS frameworks might not be. You could fudge your way through a React tutorial just as much as someone could a Magento tutorial. It's the person not the tools that make you a programmer. Magento is a fairly complex platform too. It uses lots of very formal software engineering paradigms joined together in a well thought out framework. I would consider…

I might agree on the reality, but the market rate of pay for React programmers is considerably higher than that for Magento, whether this is fair or well advised or not.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#89

Post by eu2usthrowaway »

austenallred wrote: post #76

Yes. I am the co-founder of Lambda School - (YC S17 - a CS education where the school doesn’t get paid unless you get a good job). Right now we see about 3 students/day get hired. You’ll likely hear a lot of people talking about how the market for juniors is flooded. That is partially true, but it’s flooded with people who cannot code . If you can actually be a productive employee I literally know 100 companies that…

I wanted to PM you but don't know how, hence throwaway. I apologize for not using my real hacker handle.

I've just graduated (did 3 IT study programs in total -- 6 years of studying, overkill yes, I didn't have any good career advise via my friends, family or uni).

Do you help people from the EU to work in the US? If so, then I'd really consider applying to your school since I am noticing that I can't get there myself and US companies aren't noticing me.

I am also pretty open to learn basics again since right now algorithms and data structures has been years away. And for advanced topics I only needed that knowledge on a surface level.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#90

Post by kiallmacinnes »

tomxor wrote: post #83
osrec wrote: post #79

Hell yes! Just don't try and be the guy making 3 page info sites for your local gardener/bakery/whatever. There's simply no money in that, as they can do that themselves for free with an online website builder, so the value add from a good dev is minimal. Once you've honed your skills, focus on the more complex, bespoke projects. Become good at delivering on time and try to find clients that wish to invest in tech to…

> Just don't try and be the guy making 3 page info sites for your local gardener/bakery/whatever. This, THIS! Many web devs do a bit of this starting out and that's fine... just don't try to make it into something more, not only because it's worthless and the clients will drive you nuts by chasing them for petty bills but because you will also get bored out of your mind. Get involved in, or start a more significant p…

Completely agree. Doing a few of these is fine, but for most people, it'll get pretty boring pretty fast.

Add in the business side - finding clients, chasing bills, and the small 3 page sites won't be making you any money unless you have an army of developers churning them out.

Personally, I see "Web Developer" as a skillset worth knowing, not an industry to be in. Use small gigs to learn HTML, CSS, Wordpress etc - but branch out. Contribute to some FOSS JS/PHP/Ruby/C#/whatever libraries, build some sites without WordPress or similar, and angle yourself towards being a web developer at a company who tag line isn't "Web Development" (or digital marketing!).

All that said, I know there are people who LOVE the 3 page site work. So maybe that is what you want, but it wasn't for me :)

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