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Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

latimes.com

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Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#51

Post by twtw »

taobility wrote: post #42
amerine wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because as a society we know it’s cheaper to treat early and often rather than deal with emergencies 80% of the time. Also, I agree with you, but likely from a different place. No individual should be paying a hospital bill, it should be included in a tax on my income. If I have lots of income I pay for lots of people, maybe an astounding amount, if I have little to no income I depend on my wealthy neighbors to cover…

[flagged]

This slippery slope argument is valueless. It's perfectly possible to have socialized healthcare without communism.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#52

Post by cronix »

grecy wrote: post #30
baddox wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does helping individuals with their healthcare improve society? Presumably any advocate of government healthcare programs would say that it does. If it does, then why would the legal status of each individual affect the societal improvement?

You can look at developed countries that do provide healthcare to individuals, who across the board have lower murder rates and violent crime than the US. It's easy to answer your question, just look outside your own borders.

That's an observation one could make by strictly looking at numbers, but it is not cause and effect.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#53

Post by twtw »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #26
p1necone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the alternative is hospitals treating them anyway and sending out bills that will never get paid - ultimately costing society even more. Unless you actually think illegal immigrants should just be left to die when they have medical issues? I sure hope not.

The alternatives are sending them home - or - giving them citizenship. Suppose you do the later - whoops (!) - as soon as the workers are citizens, and employers have to pay full benefits, and worry about unions ... then they'll dump such new citizens and hire actual illegal workers! Point being: the price of that cheap labour is a function of their illegal status more than anything. It's a false dynamic. Just enforc…

The alternatives you mention are things that could happen in the future. The alternative 'p1necone brought up is the status quo.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#54

Post by sabujp »

oh_sigh wrote: post #18
sabujp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because they provide services that you rely on and do jobs that legal migrants and citizens aren't going to do

So, the fact that these people live in the underworld and generally get mistreated by their employers and paid illegally low wages is a feature to you? Interesting.

it's not a feature, it's the current state, as someone above mentioned the market isn't paying minimum wage and has to rely on lots of migrant laborers to pick the food. Yes we can do better. One incremental step is to give them free or affordable healthcare

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#55

Post by rhegart »

nikdaheratik wrote: post #46
rhegart wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agreed. By far the stupidest platform of the left. If illegals hear this, then more and more of them will come to California from other countries and especially other states. We pay $10k a year per illegal kid already which has deeply burdened our schools. We currently already pay for illegal kids healthcare completely because they are covered under medi-cal and we have emergency health care for those who urgent…

There's an awful lot of anec-data and not much actual fact here. The people who deal with the problems mostly think this plan is a good idea. Perhaps you should think about why that is rather than bringing your own personal issues and biases into this discussion.

Which part is not a fact? That it costs $10k per illegal kid in California schools which are ranked 49th in the country? Down from near the top 20 years ago? That our schools are overflowing and getting worse in Los Angeles County, the epicenter of the problems, the schools are so bad that everyone is moving to charters.

That illegal kids are covered by medi-cal until they come of age? That we fund health clinics? That if you have a citizen baby, organizations aid you to get low income housing which then you use for the entire family? Please tell me a non fact into any of this.

Please learn to read and critically think. Anecdotes in conjunction with facts help make compelling arguments. You have brought neither. “The people who deal with the problems think this plan is a good idea”. This statement is downright moronic. Obviously the leftists who created this policy think it’s a good idea...those who disagree and create other policies such as harsher border security also think their plan is a good idea. Does that mean you will concede your critical thinking to those you disagree with?

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#56

Post by zzzeek »

taobility wrote: post #36
zzzeek wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because health care is a human right.

who said that? If so, should Medi-Cal also cover the medial expense of Africa? There are more people in terrible condition than these illegal ones.

> who said that?

the World Health Organization in their constitution established in 1946:

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/human-right...

crazy radical stuff huh?

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#57

Post by losteric »

nerdponx wrote: post #33
sonnyblarney wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternatives are sending them home - or - giving them citizenship. Suppose you do the later - whoops (!) - as soon as the workers are citizens, and employers have to pay full benefits, and worry about unions ... then they'll dump such new citizens and hire actual illegal workers! Point being: the price of that cheap labour is a function of their illegal status more than anything. It's a false dynamic. Just enforc…

One issue with this approach is that enforcing labor laws is already difficult.

What about offering a reward to unregistered immigrants in exchange for ratting out their employers? Works for other types of illegal labor... maybe a slice of the fine and the option of fast-tracked citizenship.

Anyway, policing businesses will always be easier than policing individuals... smaller numbers, immobile, already registered with the state, and they have stronger incentives to obey the law.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#58

Post by throwawayunodos »

p1necone wrote: post #14
aliston wrote: post #4

Why should California tax payers provide health insurance to illegal immigrants?

Because the alternative is hospitals treating them anyway and sending out bills that will never get paid - ultimately costing society even more. Unless you actually think illegal immigrants should just be left to die when they have medical issues? I sure hope not.

Surely not. However, once they are treated and are healthy why should they not be reported to authorities so that proper law can take course.

I think we should really revisit this whole notion of "sanctuary" state/city/etc, it just doesn't make sense.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#59

Post by zzzeek »

taobility wrote: post #24
p1necone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the alternative is hospitals treating them anyway and sending out bills that will never get paid - ultimately costing society even more. Unless you actually think illegal immigrants should just be left to die when they have medical issues? I sure hope not.

if so, why should any patient pay the bill to the hospital?

why should I pay my income taxes when someone living below the poverty line doesn't pay any?

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#60

Post by throwawayunodos »

colmmacc wrote: post #41
aliston wrote: post #4

Why should California tax payers provide health insurance to illegal immigrants?

Quite a lot of the undocumented immigrants in California are themselves California tax payers.

How? Sure, they pay sales tax, but they definitely do NOT pay income tax since for that you need an SSN or a tax-id which illegal aliens do not have.

Downvoters: please explain if I was factually wrong, or did you just not like what I said.

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