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Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

latimes.com

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Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#31

Post by amerine »

taobility wrote: post #24
p1necone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the alternative is hospitals treating them anyway and sending out bills that will never get paid - ultimately costing society even more. Unless you actually think illegal immigrants should just be left to die when they have medical issues? I sure hope not.

if so, why should any patient pay the bill to the hospital?

Because as a society we know it’s cheaper to treat early and often rather than deal with emergencies 80% of the time.

Also, I agree with you, but likely from a different place. No individual should be paying a hospital bill, it should be included in a tax on my income. If I have lots of income I pay for lots of people, maybe an astounding amount, if I have little to no income I depend on my wealthy neighbors to cover me. Seems to me like the only way to go, that or I guess the rich get eaten.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#32

Post by inscionent »

aliston wrote: post #4

Why should California tax payers provide health insurance to illegal immigrants?

Because these people are a part of California society. Because California businesses are taking advantage of these people for cheap labor. If California tax payers have an issue with this they should take it up with the businesses who aren't pulling their weight.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#33

Post by nerdponx »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #26
p1necone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the alternative is hospitals treating them anyway and sending out bills that will never get paid - ultimately costing society even more. Unless you actually think illegal immigrants should just be left to die when they have medical issues? I sure hope not.

The alternatives are sending them home - or - giving them citizenship. Suppose you do the later - whoops (!) - as soon as the workers are citizens, and employers have to pay full benefits, and worry about unions ... then they'll dump such new citizens and hire actual illegal workers! Point being: the price of that cheap labour is a function of their illegal status more than anything. It's a false dynamic. Just enforc…

One issue with this approach is that enforcing labor laws is already difficult.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#34

Post by taobility »

sabujp wrote: post #16
danablast wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if we could pay citizens fair market price for their labor we wouldn't have to rely on illegal immigrants.

how many citizens and legal migrants do you know are going to work in backbreaking conditions picking the food you eat for minimum wage? Cheap robots haven't caught up yet to pick and grow everything we need. Also note that not everyone can pay whole food prices

Please get out of California, especially SV, and go to mid-US, there are so many US citizens can't afford daily food.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#35

Post by danablast »

mmanfrin wrote: post #11
danablast wrote: post #6

There goes California's balanced budget.

It's $250mil. CA is not gonna hurt from this in the slightest.

With all the other things they're cramming into the budget don't get ahead of yourself.

California has a habit of overspending when revenue is up. We'll be in red again under Gavin.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#36

Post by taobility »

zzzeek wrote: post #21
aliston wrote: post #4

Why should California tax payers provide health insurance to illegal immigrants?

because health care is a human right.

who said that? If so, should Medi-Cal also cover the medial expense of Africa? There are more people in terrible condition than these illegal ones.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#38

Post by hindsightbias »

sabujp wrote: post #16
danablast wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if we could pay citizens fair market price for their labor we wouldn't have to rely on illegal immigrants.

how many citizens and legal migrants do you know are going to work in backbreaking conditions picking the food you eat for minimum wage? Cheap robots haven't caught up yet to pick and grow everything we need. Also note that not everyone can pay whole food prices

Someone should forward this to the current Ag Secretary: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/wh...

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#39

Post by imperialyuma »

sabujp wrote: post #16
danablast wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if we could pay citizens fair market price for their labor we wouldn't have to rely on illegal immigrants.

how many citizens and legal migrants do you know are going to work in backbreaking conditions picking the food you eat for minimum wage? Cheap robots haven't caught up yet to pick and grow everything we need. Also note that not everyone can pay whole food prices

Throwaway because I don’t want this associated with me publically.

I grew up in the Imperial Valley, California and graduated from CUHS the year after the recession hit.

At the time I had no prospects, I wasn’t a software developer, I didn’t have the grades or money for college outside IVC and neither did many of my classmates.

No fewer than 7-10 people my age, my class, were working the fields nearby the winter after graduation, all US citizens most at least 2nd generation, 2-3 pochos that couldn’t even speak Spanish.

It wasn’t good money, but it was money that was available without having leave/stop helping your family and move to San Diego and pay San Diego rent, food, transport, and moving prices for some shitty job at a Cici’s Pizza while living in a 2 bed/1 bathroom apartment with 4 other people and trying to catch classes at grossmont, city, Mesa etc simultaneously.

Many people would take that opportunity, you just don’t know any of us.

Re: Gov. Gavin Newsom proposes healthcare mandate, Medi-Cal expansion

#40

Post by techslave »

zzzeek wrote: post #21
aliston wrote: post #4

Why should California tax payers provide health insurance to illegal immigrants?

because health care is a human right.

careful.

so are you saying that a $5MM procedure to save a lazy ne'er do well homeless person from some exotic condition, whereupon their release from the hospital will go back to being homeless and is likely to die of some "ordinary" disease, is a basic human right?

where is the line between what level of health care is a right and what level is not? i'll note there is no such thing as a life-saving procedure. even trauma interventions are just deferral of death.

don't get me wrong, i don't have an answer myself. i'm just trying to understand your position in better detail. we are all here due to the compassion of many, many others, most of which are unrecognized.

but a right? how can it be a right when health care as we know it today didn't even exist 100 years ago?

and healthcare isn't free. someone pays for it, and as we are divided into nations, it's the citizens of a given nation that have done the paying. i do believe illegal immigrants should get better treatment, possibly including healthcare. After all, they are (contrary to those who need someone to blame for their woes) doing us a desired service. so yeah, there's a grey area on healthcare. but, a right?

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