I'm I shallow if I stopped caring about this project after they started with all this crypto currency stuff?
If you read the old blog entries about why it was done, do you still feel that way?
Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
81–90 of 141 posts
Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point is that Rebol and Red are extremely good chameleons - they hide all their power behind the approachable facade, and make a false impression of "oh it's just X, nothing serious". I saw a fair share of people who, based on that first impression, dismiss Red as a quirky alternative to Python, or a GUI-building kit, or a pretentious academical toy, you name it. But that doesn't mean that these languages child-sa…
Ah, so we were more or less on the same page from the beginning. BTW, is there a child-safe dialect for Red? How easy or hard would it be to create an environment like Processing or p5.js, without the foot-shooting risks? https://processing.org/ http://p5js.org/
Creating a dialect is pretty easy, though it's a broad term, so not ALL are easy to create. :^) An environment is an entirely different beast, but @9214 addressed that already as well. The more you leverage core features, the more you get outside your dialect though. You trade power for safety. It's easy to create a simple Logo Turtle interpreter though.
Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#83I still don't know what to make of this language. If anything, it sounds too easy, making me think "what's the catch?" Is this a small programming cult or is it Czech wizardry obscured by a language barrier? Are there no highly visible Red projects because of shortcomings in the language and its community, or because the language is so potent, its users so empowered, that big libraries aren't necessary?
I do not appreciate your remark about our community and Czech-speaking part of it. This is rude and uncalled for. Regardless of gender and nationality of community members, and despite the fact that Red is an alpha software, the following projects were created, which may qualify as highly visible: * neural networks [1] * computer vision framework [2] * dataflow engine [3] * ports of (cross-platform) GUI widgets [4] *…
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Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#84A great feature of Red is their cross platform GUI support. I see Android is also supported. Does anyone know what the status of iphone (iOS) support is ?
I wouldn't call its GUI really cross-platform yet. Linux GUI definitely isn't production ready. Android is somewhat usable. iOS is not working. Nevertheless, I keep my fingers crossed. My estimate is in 2-3 years you will be able to start writing small cross-platform GUI apps in RED and not worry about trifle problems.
This came up not long ago, and we have to define "cross platform" to say whether Red meets the criteria. Red does have a cross platform GUI system, though it is only fully implemented on MacOS and Windows currently. We don't run on iOS at all yet. What the current system shows is that a single, cross platform dialect can abstract away the native OS APIs in a clean way, though there will always be tradeoffs, as every OS has different features.
The RED Wallet is an example of a cross platform app, done today.
Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> > If anything, it sounds too easy, making me think "what's the catch? > This is rude and uncalled for. I think she/he raise a fair point about how the Red language is advertised, and it's actually a rather friendly to assume that it's due to language barrier. Many posts about Red/Rebol are unequivocal praise with very few details or any acknowledgements of short-comings or limitations of the languages. Just to dig…
Articles you linked are fairly old, unofficial (that is, don't represent opinions of Red designers and developers) and are written by more-or-less experienced Rebol users. That is, it's hard to talk objectively when you have a tunnel vision accumulated over time. These languages are great, and deserves all the praise they get. As for shortcomings and limitations, here I can speak only form my experience. If you want…
I've followed Red for a long time, occasionally downloaded builds, and currently hold some of the token.
As of right now I have these thoughts:
* I think the focus on crypto could be a long shot, because my observation is that it's premised on capturing the notoriously fickle dev tools market...
* ...But in the end, Red has to get into a niche and own it and the team is, as some in this thread are suggesting, fanatical enough about what they're doing and confident in its strengths, that they are likely to go farther than anyone else had considered. Which is good enough to make me speculate on it.
* Although Red produces some great demos right now, the lineage of Rebol has its downsides too, since with a lot of these demos, when you get past the trivial and start customizing the UX in fine grain detail, a brick wall of unconventional paradigms is exposed which means that even if I'm experienced in other systems, I start needing a higher level of documentation and handholding. This is not an issue exclusive to Red and frequently impacts software libraries, but one way in which a lot of projects cheat on this problem is to emulate an existing API with lots of adoption and say, "Look, we're the same!" And then they don't have to document, they just steal the existing users.
* Regarding the pace of announcements, there's a rule of thumb Valve worked out for updates of Team Fortress 2 years ago(discussed in one of the articles or talks from then) that I see as more-or-less applicable to all software: Roughly every two months, make a large release with a detailed summary narrative. Project news is a great marketing tool when it's sized like this. Smaller releases tend to not make headlines, larger ones don't have a larger impact. So that's a proposed benchmark for what Red could be doing. The fact that this post blew up is a sign that something is going well, though :)
Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are right that GC s not good fit for low level programming, but Red solves this problem with dialects (DSL) of Red. For low-level it uses Red/System [1], which is C-like language with Red syntax. There are also other dialects (DSLs) for other areas like GUI, parsing, etc... It's better approach IMO than trying to solve everything with one language. [1] https://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs.html
This was something that definitely got my attention. If the butthurtness of 9214 above is representative of the community, though, I'd probably last 10 minutes in their forum before being banned for life.
We do try to maintain a high standard of civility.
Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay, but just an FYI that was probably a complement. Wizardry and magic has positive vibes in American culture. I can see how that might not be the case in others.
"Wizardry" surrounded by "cult", "no highly visible projects" and "shortcomings", followed by unbacked focus on a particular national group reads more like "quackery" to me. I get that meaning might be lost in translation, but also think that it's fair to assume the worst, esp. on an Internet forum.
> [I] think that it's fair to assume the worst, esp. on an Internet forum.
As per HackerNews Guidelines page [1]:
Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Articles you linked are fairly old, unofficial (that is, don't represent opinions of Red designers and developers) and are written by more-or-less experienced Rebol users. That is, it's hard to talk objectively when you have a tunnel vision accumulated over time. These languages are great, and deserves all the praise they get. As for shortcomings and limitations, here I can speak only form my experience. If you want…
I've followed Red for a long time, occasionally downloaded builds, and currently hold some of the token. As of right now I have these thoughts: * I think the focus on crypto could be a long shot, because my observation is that it's premised on capturing the notoriously fickle dev tools market... * ...But in the end, Red has to get into a niche and own it and the team is, as some in this thread are suggesting, fanatic…
Thanks for the input!
Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are right that GC s not good fit for low level programming, but Red solves this problem with dialects (DSL) of Red. For low-level it uses Red/System [1], which is C-like language with Red syntax. There are also other dialects (DSLs) for other areas like GUI, parsing, etc... It's better approach IMO than trying to solve everything with one language. [1] https://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs.html
This was something that definitely got my attention. If the butthurtness of 9214 above is representative of the community, though, I'd probably last 10 minutes in their forum before being banned for life.
Even though some of my responses in this thread can be considered butthurt-ish in the hindsight, I don't think that judging whole community by one individual is a good idea.
Re: Red Programming Language: Plans for 2019
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Wizardry" surrounded by "cult", "no highly visible projects" and "shortcomings", followed by unbacked focus on a particular national group reads more like "quackery" to me. I get that meaning might be lost in translation, but also think that it's fair to assume the worst, esp. on an Internet forum.
> [I] think that it's fair to assume the worst, esp. on an Internet forum. As per HackerNews Guidelines page [1]: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Touche.