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Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

news.gallup.com

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Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#191

Post by theandrewbailey »

bruceb wrote: post #85
rootusrootus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC it's pretty common to walk across the border and then present yourself to immigration and ask for asylum. Assuming that is your only probable immigration method, since otherwise it's reputedly quite difficult to gain approval. Also, Canada handles the whole process a bit more humanely than the United States does.

are hundreds/thousands of people trying to cross in to Canada everyday? Easy when its only a few people, harder when its not.

Yes. Look at Roxham Road.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/migrants-flood-canada-roxham-ro...

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#192

Post by duaoebg »

totalrobe wrote: post #184
duaoebg wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a tax exile. It has been the best decision I have ever made. I now save 10x more money each year. More and more Americans are turning up every year doing the same thing. I love America but the idea of paying American taxes is just too much from a fiscal, moral, ideological point of view.

Where? Somewhere with decent jobs or do you need a remote gig?

I can’t say where I live as there are not enough expats here for me to stay anonymous but I can say work remotely for US companies.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#193

Post by AnthonyMouse »

ergothus wrote: post #171
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dissatisfaction with the govt does not necessarily mean dissatisfaction with the return on the investment of taxes. I want kids to be educated, people to be healthy, and that desire doesn't change if my tax rate is 0% or 80%. Sure, there's a point at which I think that taxes aren't the answer, but the root desire is not about taxes, they are merely a means to an end. The issue is about efficiency. If you pay $2000…

> If we were getting what we're getting now and paying half the taxes then everything would be fine This is the statement I disagree with. Me having a few thousand extra $ at the end of the year does not give the homeless homes, does not allow me to comparison shop for healthcare, does not tell me if the drug at the store is actually real, does not ensure the schools are safe and effective. And I can't buy those by m…

> And I can't buy those by myself for that extra cash.

Why not? If you had thousands of dollars a year in extra cash, you could donate to homeless shelters, pay the higher healthcare premiums, subscribe to a service that would independently validate pharmacies, pay for good private schools or donate to scholarship funds, etc.

More to the point, you wouldn't need to pay for them to the extent that they already exist. There currently are homeless shelters and multiple health insurance companies and an FDA and mostly reasonable public schools. But they cost twice as much as they ought to or more. The healthcare market in the US is completely broken, but it's completely broken by inefficient regulations. Some of the costs of the inefficiency are paid in private health insurance premiums rather than tax dollars, but the problem is still the inefficiency.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#194

Post by idoubtit »

tristor wrote: post #57

I find it interesting how many comments here and on other sites that linked the same article talk about this being tied to concerns around how their tax dollars are spent. It seems many people are not aware that the US is one of only two countries which taxes it's citizens no matter where they reside. Leaving the US is not enough if you wish to avoid taxation, you must also acquire citizenship in another country, and…

> [...] the US is still probably the best place one could possibly live inclusive of all factors. There is a reason we're a net importer of people rather than a net exporter.

The first sentence is a highly subjective opinion, and the second one is biased. I'll try to bring some (factual) dissonance.

Most immigrants into the USA come from Latin America and Asia. I haven't found recent immigration balances between the USA and other rich countries, but I doubt it would always be a net import to the US, especially if one considers permanent immigration. For instance, more American citizens (120k) live in Australia than the contrary (90k).

As for the USA being the best place to live, it's surely not based on life expectancy. Even the CIA world facts ranks the country after the 40th position, with many English speaking counties better ranked. The obesity rate of 39% is probably the largest factor of this lower quality of life.

Now for a subjective opinion, I like my way of life because I live in a town where I can walk/run to the nearest mountain in half an hour, I go to work on a bicycle-only road, I buy fresh food in a nearby open-air market where farmers sell their own production, I only use my car on week-ends... Many countries offer all this, but I suspect few places in the USA could compare. And when I went to dentist this morning, I did not even bring my wallet, because I knew that, like almost everyone in the country, I don't have to pay for basic care.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#195

Post by skh »

bliblah wrote: post #178
skh wrote: post #16

Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation. I’m all for supporting a government that supports the people. From my perspective we don’t have this and haven’t had it for some time. Other developed nations have better infrastructure, better social support system, near free higher education, free at point of contact healthcare systems. What we get in the U.S. is the most advanced…

I can't help but feel that is misguided because it sounds like the only solution is to lower taxes and make people happy. From my experience some of the reasons people in my circle have left / wish to leave the US are the following: - Race relations have become more divisive. If you speak spanish in certain parts of the country you are outright asked to provide proof of citizenship as though you are a second class ci…

That’s a fair point. I guess underlying my view on return on taxation is a belief that government ought to be there to support people. If Americans en masse could be convinced that this is what government ought to be about then the shift in culture you speak of might come about. Maybe then the public debate would be about what is efficacious and not the vapid vituperation that currently pervades American political discourse.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#196

Post by eli_gottlieb »

umvi wrote: post #51
rootusrootus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it is dissatisfaction with the government's contract with the citizenry, combined with recent evidence suggesting that a good chunk, say half, of the population has no interest in progressing. So people who can leave for somewhere that more closely aligns with their values are doing just that. I have family here and I love the United States, I'm staying, and I hope we can make some more progress, but I to…

> combined with recent evidence suggesting that a good chunk, say half, of the population has no interest in progressing Different people have different definitions of "progress". Your definition of progress might not align with mine. That doesn't mean I am not interested in progress, just that I believe we should be progressing in a different (possibly even diametrical) direction than you believe we should be progre…

That's fine to say, but it ignores the problem of minority rule. If we all take a big vote, and most people want Progress(A), you don't have the ethical right to jump up and down or put a gun to the rest of our heads insisting that we instead do Progress(B).

Maybe Progress(B) is a lovely thing for you. The rest of us, however, don't like it very much, and didn't vote for it.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#197

Post by walrus01 »

muzz wrote: post #170
duaoebg wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reduction in tax is still substantial.

How is there any reduction in tax if expats must still pay US taxes?

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...

there is a "physical presence test" where you need to be resident outside the USA for 330 days or more a year.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#198

Post by eli_gottlieb »

cazum wrote: post #176
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very strange area to discuss. And given the grayed out text, you've already been downmodded. I had this, err, debate on Reddit recently. I am against the actions Israel is taking against Palestine. I view it as an atrocity in its own right. (There, I said my part. Please hear the rest out.) From that, I said I was against the actions of violence. However I was attacked and called an antisemite. And it wasn'…

Watch "The Lobby" by The Electronic Intifada. It will shed a lot of light onto what you're describing.

Oh yeah, "Electronic Intifada", a truly quality journalistic source that totally wouldn't tell you the Jews control America or anything.

God fucking damnit I hate these conversations. No, we don't manipulate the bloody government! We're less than 2% of the population. You know who passes all those laws "outlying" criticism of Israel, none of which have stood up in court, ever? Evangelical Christian Republicans.

Not American Jews or Israeli exiles, who, again, mostly vote Democratic and make up an insignificantly small fraction of the total population.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#199

Post by rootusrootus »

_khhm wrote: post #175
umvi wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> combined with recent evidence suggesting that a good chunk, say half, of the population has no interest in progressing Different people have different definitions of "progress". Your definition of progress might not align with mine. That doesn't mean I am not interested in progress, just that I believe we should be progressing in a different (possibly even diametrical) direction than you believe we should be progre…

Clearly OP means agreeing with his agenda here. Anything contrary to his agenda is not progress, but going backwards. "around half" is a veiled hit on people who voted for President Trump.

No, I just mean progress. We have data, we could be using it to improve. But instead, we watch other countries leapfrog us in quantifiable ways while we point fingers at each other and accuse 'the other side' of being the real problem. And we are so enamored with ourselves being special that we won't even consider ideas from other countries which have successfully dealt with similar problems. It is very frustrating. And I don't care which side politically you are on, you are only part of the problem from my perspective if you care more about winning than actually making better policy.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#200

Post by rootusrootus »

kortilla wrote: post #129
rootusrootus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it is dissatisfaction with the government's contract with the citizenry, combined with recent evidence suggesting that a good chunk, say half, of the population has no interest in progressing. So people who can leave for somewhere that more closely aligns with their values are doing just that. I have family here and I love the United States, I'm staying, and I hope we can make some more progress, but I to…

>with recent evidence suggesting that a good chunk, say half, of the population has no interest in progressing. Has it crossed your mind that this half might not see what you want as progress but instead destructive?

If you simply see it politically, then sure. I see progress as a fairly objective goal. We may differ on how, but surely we can agree on the facts and what the definition of better is.
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