Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#171

Post by ergothus » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #147

ergothus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the general sentiment, I think this stresses an emphasis on taxes that isn't right. Do you think these people would still be unsatisfied if the tax rate was 0%? I do. Dissatisfaction with the govt does not necessarily mean dissatisfaction with the return on the investment of taxes. I want kids to be educated, people to be healthy, and that desire doesn't change if my tax rate is 0% or 80%. Sure, th…

> Dissatisfaction with the govt does not necessarily mean dissatisfaction with the return on the investment of taxes. I want kids to be educated, people to be healthy, and that desire doesn't change if my tax rate is 0% or 80%. Sure, there's a point at which I think that taxes aren't the answer, but the root desire is not about taxes, they are merely a means to an end. The issue is about efficiency. If you pay $2000…

> If we were getting what we're getting now and paying half the taxes then everything would be fine

This is the statement I disagree with. Me having a few thousand extra $ at the end of the year does not give the homeless homes, does not allow me to comparison shop for healthcare, does not tell me if the drug at the store is actually real, does not ensure the schools are safe and effective. And I can't buy those by myself for that extra cash. This is how the people under discussion in this article are feeling.

We won't resolve libertarian principles and divides here, but WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THIS ARTICLE, my argument is that the dissatisfied people would not be content if the tax rate is zero, because they aren't dissatisfied about the tax rate. That there is a separate group of people that ARE dissatisfied about the tax rate can be true without being relevant to the first group.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#172

Post by tannerwj » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

megaman8 wrote: post #86

greesil wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that we don't get a good return on the taxes we pay. But, defense spending is about 1/6 of the federal budget at around 3% of GDP. For comparison medicare/medicaid combined is about 5% of GDP. Apparently France spends 4% of GDP on healthcare total, not just for old people. I think the biggest problem with our system is not necessarily that defense spending is so high, but that our healthcare system is so inef…

much of the defense spending is hidden in other areas: like Dept of energy, dept of veteran affairs, homeland security, etc. So it's a lot bigger than it looks.

Where could I see numbers on this?

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#173

Post by josefresco » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #163

josefresco wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't destroyers, cruisers and carriers considered antiquated in a modern / all out war? A few times a year, I see articles about how these slow moving, once mighty behemoths would make easy targets for newer anti-ship missiles / tech. Nuclear armed submarines are probably their most important defensive asset. So is Israel smart for not wasting money on a huge naval fleet?

There is no such thing as a modern all out war because of the massive US military and nukes. Israel doesn’t need to worry about an invasion because it can fall back on the US.

> There is no such thing as a modern all out war

I generally agree. When I've debated this topic with others they basically say the carrier groups will be the first to go, but the response from nuclear submarines, and hidden fixed launch sites would be overwhelming.

Again, I'm not arguing this point, just suggesting that some may argue a strong Navy is antiquated.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#174

Post by duaoebg » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

skh wrote: post #16

Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation. I’m all for supporting a government that supports the people. From my perspective we don’t have this and haven’t had it for some time. Other developed nations have better infrastructure, better social support system, near free higher education, free at point of contact healthcare systems. What we get in the U.S. is the most advanced…

I’m a tax exile. It has been the best decision I have ever made. I now save 10x more money each year. More and more Americans are turning up every year doing the same thing. I love America but the idea of paying American taxes is just too much from a fiscal, moral, ideological point of view.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#175

Post by _khhm » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #51

rootusrootus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it is dissatisfaction with the government's contract with the citizenry, combined with recent evidence suggesting that a good chunk, say half, of the population has no interest in progressing. So people who can leave for somewhere that more closely aligns with their values are doing just that. I have family here and I love the United States, I'm staying, and I hope we can make some more progress, but I to…

> combined with recent evidence suggesting that a good chunk, say half, of the population has no interest in progressing Different people have different definitions of "progress". Your definition of progress might not align with mine. That doesn't mean I am not interested in progress, just that I believe we should be progressing in a different (possibly even diametrical) direction than you believe we should be progre…

Clearly OP means agreeing with his agenda here.

Anything contrary to his agenda is not progress, but going backwards. "around half" is a veiled hit on people who voted for President Trump.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#176

Post by cazum » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #148

expathacker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering Israel is increasingly succeeding in making it illegal for Americans to protest them, I would answer your question with, "A minute ago?"

This is a very strange area to discuss. And given the grayed out text, you've already been downmodded. I had this, err, debate on Reddit recently. I am against the actions Israel is taking against Palestine. I view it as an atrocity in its own right. (There, I said my part. Please hear the rest out.) From that, I said I was against the actions of violence. However I was attacked and called an antisemite. And it wasn'…

Watch "The Lobby" by The Electronic Intifada. It will shed a lot of light onto what you're describing.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#177

Post by tivert » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

skh wrote: post #16

Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation. I’m all for supporting a government that supports the people. From my perspective we don’t have this and haven’t had it for some time. Other developed nations have better infrastructure, better social support system, near free higher education, free at point of contact healthcare systems. What we get in the U.S. is the most advanced…

> Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation.

No, not at all. In the US, it's not uncommon for partisans to threaten to "move to Canada" if the party they oppose wins the election. Here's are some examples (http://fortune.com/2016/11/08/election-move-canada-trump/).

All this indicates is that some people are dissatisfied with the results of an election and the party and politicians who are in power.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#178

Post by bliblah » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

skh wrote: post #16

Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation. I’m all for supporting a government that supports the people. From my perspective we don’t have this and haven’t had it for some time. Other developed nations have better infrastructure, better social support system, near free higher education, free at point of contact healthcare systems. What we get in the U.S. is the most advanced…

I can't help but feel that is misguided because it sounds like the only solution is to lower taxes and make people happy.

From my experience some of the reasons people in my circle have left / wish to leave the US are the following:

- Race relations have become more divisive. If you speak spanish in certain parts of the country you are outright asked to provide proof of citizenship as though you are a second class citizenship. BLM has also made counter movements more bold with my black friends being harassed more by the police over trivial things.

-Gun Violence. I live in Florida and have had two close calls with gun massacres in Parkland and Orlando. I am reaching the age where if I were to have kids I would have to make a cost/benefit analysis of their chances getting shot down in cold blood.

- Politics have become more divisive than ever. I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and it is becoming unbearable if you are anything but a left/right wing radical. Either way every election ensures that 50% of the population is outright mad at all times.

-General Cultural Differences. In the US you need to have a car to get anywhere and opportunities for employment feel very limited outside the mega city centers which tend to be very car centric and have no real culture outside of a few museums.

Obviously it would help if the government was better organized but I don't see how the points I raised would be solved outside of a huge shift in culture.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#179

Post by village-idiot » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #19

lkrubner wrote: post #14

A truly incredible statistic: “ 40% of women younger than 30 would like to leave the U.S. ” That says a lot about the extent to which Trump has alienated young women.

That number seems extremely suspect. If that were really true, it would bubble about culturally in all kinds of ways.

.... Have you not been paying attention? A lot of women are pissed.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#180

Post by wil421 » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

tlb wrote: post #134

wil421 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not very knowledgeable of margin of errors but does 1,000 people, not women, really give you enough data to represent 30+ million females between 15-30?

Out of 1000 adults, you'd expect 125 to be women 15-30. That gives a margin of error for that subgroup of 9% (at 95% confidence level). They quoted 40%, so it's 95% likely to be between 31% and 49%. The size of the population doesn't affect the accuracy of a survey, only the size of the survey.

You answered my first question and now I have many many more.

Thanks for responding.