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I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

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Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#131

Post by joshsyn »

salawat wrote: post #61
anuragsoni wrote: post #23

"To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it." This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when…

I do not understand the mentality of "opinionated" frameworks or tools being a good thing, and the trend toward said frameworks disturbs me greatly. What people call "opinionated" is nothing more than something being "architected". Someone has made a bunch of decisions for you that down the road you have no idea whether or not it will actually be good for you. Using these types of frameworks short-circuits the proces…

With that mentality, your best bet is to write in assembly language.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#132

Post by kodablah »

freedomben wrote: post #118
anuragsoni wrote: post #23

"To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it." This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when…

You may want to look at Qt. Qt brings a wide array of standard tooling, starting with `qmake`. It also has tons of libraries far beyond just graphical ones (most people don't know that). If you go with Qt flavored C++, the "standard" tooling story gets better. Tho, it still won't be anything like ruby or node. Some Qt projects opt for cmake over qmake, for example. But at least getting your project bootstrapped is mu…

I went from 0 C++ work/projects to a quality production one right away w/ Qt Creator, their docs, and general bring-you-up-to-speed-on-modern-c++ docs on the web. I only had minimal experience from a decade ago in C++. Very approachable if you are familiar w/ other languages and are the reading type.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#133

Post by vasilipupkin »

lmm wrote: post #86
vasilipupkin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that statement would have to be classified as inaccurate. using C++ teaches you mostly about general purpose programming and it's pretty easy to go from C++ to python to Java to bash, etc.

Nonsense. C++'s template system behaves unlike any other language (things like SFINAE and the techniques that use it do not transfer), C++-style RAII is relatively unusual, I don't think any other language requires the programmer to think about virtual versus non-virtual inheritance, the C-derived sequence point rules are obscure and much looser than most languages' evaluation rules, the exception-safety rules are un…

well, that's just like, your opinion, man ( big lebowski reference for those too young to know ). The reason I disagree with you is because I have never met a C++ programmer who only knew C++ and couldn't easily do work in some other language, but of course plenty of people know other languages and can't do C++. Yes, SFINAE and RAII - you can go for many years of working in C++ without writing much code using either one of those.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#134

Post by gshack »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #102
hipokampa wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All C/C++ projects I have ever seen used either cmake or autoconf build system. It's pretty standard.

That's an availability bias. While cmake is common in commercial settings, I haven't seen autoconf used outside of open source. I've seen scons and meson both used as well at various companies. Meson seems to be spreading pretty rapidly. After I was introduced to it a few years ago for work, I started using it as my default build system for C++ elsewhere and more C++ devs I know have started using it. I've seen it re…

Why would one use menson over cmake ?

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#135

Post by you_owe_me »

mmjaa wrote: post #22
CodeSheikh wrote: post #6

Unless your job demanded it I can't think of a compelling reason for a Node guy to learn C++ as their go to choice of OO language. Why not Java? Even Python is a good gateway to OO for folks coming straight form Node background.

Things I'd rather be doing: * C++ * Lua .. .. [a thousand other things] .. .. * Node * Javascript __ bottom of the pile.. The Node/JS ecosystem is such a steaming pile of garbage, I can honestly see with great clarity why people should be running from it back into the arms of C++[11,17] ..

I don't know why you are downvoted my friend. Many of us share your thoughts. I wish JavaScript and all its spawn from hell never existed

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#136

Post by w4tson »

lmm wrote: post #70
bluGill wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ is commonly used for large complex projects. The problem with opinions is eventually you come across something that the opinion will not allow. For a small project an opinionated build system makes things easier and you essentially never run across something that can't work. For very large projects that is not true and so you end up fighting opinions in some place.

Examples? As a maven advocate I've commonly seen this claimed ("we have to have an ant build because we need to do x/y/z custom thing") but I've never seen an example that held up under scrutiny. E.g. there's no reason any project would ever need a custom source directory layout. No project needs to run tests before compile (and if you really need build step x to happen before build step y, you can always separate th…

On the JVM you have the luxury of a third way which is Gradle. Convention over configuration, standardized builds but with flexibility if needed.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#137

Post by thomascgalvin »

lmm wrote: post #70
bluGill wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ is commonly used for large complex projects. The problem with opinions is eventually you come across something that the opinion will not allow. For a small project an opinionated build system makes things easier and you essentially never run across something that can't work. For very large projects that is not true and so you end up fighting opinions in some place.

Examples? As a maven advocate I've commonly seen this claimed ("we have to have an ant build because we need to do x/y/z custom thing") but I've never seen an example that held up under scrutiny. E.g. there's no reason any project would ever need a custom source directory layout. No project needs to run tests before compile (and if you really need build step x to happen before build step y, you can always separate th…

> As a maven advocate I've commonly seen this claimed ("we have to have an ant build because we need to do x/y/z custom thing") but I've never seen an example that held up under scrutiny.

In my experience, this just means they don't know how to do custom thing in Maven. Maven is very configurable; it can do pretty much anything you want, as long as you're willing to throw enough XML at it.

And if you are throwing a ton of XML at it, and your pom file starts to look like a nuclear disaster, that's a good sign that the custom thing you're doing isn't such a good idea after all.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#138

Post by shaklee3 »

hipokampa wrote: post #46
anuragsoni wrote: post #23

"To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it." This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when…

All C/C++ projects I have ever seen used either cmake or autoconf build system. It's pretty standard.

DPDK switched to meson/ninja. It's great.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#140

Post by TillE »

lorenzhs wrote: post #107
pkolaczk wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some wouldn't agree: http://wiki.c2.com/?StlSucks Personally, I find Scala standard library much easier to work with and at the same time much more flexible and powerful.

That is pre-C++11 and woefully out of date. To pick out the first two "defects" listed: std::auto_ptr was deprecated in C++11 and removed in C++17, and std::unordered_map was introduced in C++11.

It's kind of frustrating how much vocal (often outraged!) C++ criticism comes from people who haven't seriously used the language in years, if ever. It's just noise.

Like a few days ago I saw a bunch of complaints about how C++14 and beyond were adding so much stuff and it's just bloat or overcomplication. No! Using that stuff makes my life so much easier, whereas C++98 was indeed a miserable nightmare.

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