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I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

vishnubharathi.codes

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Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#21

Post by inetknght »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #17
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ is not very canonical OOP. And by that I don’t just mean it’s multi paradigm nature, but it’s realization of OOP features. Using C++ teaches you mostly about using C++ and doesn’t really transfer across the paradigm.

I think that statement would have to be classified as inaccurate. using C++ teaches you mostly about general purpose programming and it's pretty easy to go from C++ to python to Java to bash, etc.

I would say learning C++ didn't quite teach me what I needed to go to bash.

Learning bash became easy when I learned pipelines and the GNU coreutils.

Now I wish I could take what I'd learned from GNU coreutils and apply that to C++.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#22

Post by mmjaa »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #6

Unless your job demanded it I can't think of a compelling reason for a Node guy to learn C++ as their go to choice of OO language. Why not Java? Even Python is a good gateway to OO for folks coming straight form Node background.

Things I'd rather be doing:

* C++

* Lua

..

.. [a thousand other things]

..

..

* Node

* Javascript

__ bottom of the pile..

The Node/JS ecosystem is such a steaming pile of garbage, I can honestly see with great clarity why people should be running from it back into the arms of C++[11,17] ..

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#23

Post by anuragsoni »

"To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it."

This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when moving past the "1-person" projects. Want to contribute to other projects? Chances are they all have very different build setups and configurations when it comes to building, testing, dependency management. That adds some friction even before you start taking a look at the actual code-base.

I understand that a lot of these problems can occur for languages as old as C++, but I wish the tooling was a little more opinionated and worked a little better at guiding newcomers into doing things in a nicer manner.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#24

Post by CyberDildonics »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #6

Unless your job demanded it I can't think of a compelling reason for a Node guy to learn C++ as their go to choice of OO language. Why not Java? Even Python is a good gateway to OO for folks coming straight form Node background.

Someone has to actually do all the native programming that powers scripting languages and VMs.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#25

Post by porpoisely »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14
porpoisely wrote: post #8

What's there to regret? For purely edification purposes, there isn't a better OOP language ( though it encompasses other paradigms as well and isn't purely OOP ) since it doesn't have training wheels. You could hurt yourself with it but it certainly allows you to explore and learn. Also, you could "learn" it in a year, but it takes you a lifetime to master it.

C++ is not very canonical OOP. And by that I don’t just mean it’s multi paradigm nature, but it’s realization of OOP features. Using C++ teaches you mostly about using C++ and doesn’t really transfer across the paradigm.

I agree. I wasn't trying to say C++ is great for learning OOP. I was saying that C++ is the best OOP-style language to learn in general because it allows you to break things and it encompasses other paradigms. Ruby is great for learning OOP, but it is far less general and far more protective than C++. But I'm sure others will have their own preferences but to me the lack of training wheels in C++ almost forces you to learn. Otherwise, you simply won't progress. I guess that could be a good thing or a bad thing as it might force some people to quit early on. Ultimately, I don't think learning C++ or anything language should be something you regret.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#26

Post by chooseaname »

blub wrote: post #19
hellofunk wrote: post #2

> My quest for relearning C++ started in November 2018. That’s great! I’ve been using it since 2013 and still haven’t learned it!

What language can one say that they fully master? I've been using Python since 2008-ish on and off for various scripting tasks and small tools, I can't say that I've "learned" it. They keep adding new stuff, some things I forgot, others I never needed. I've been using C++ professionally since ~2006 and for similar reasons I won't say that I master it either. Metaprogramming is a clear weak point for me, but OTOH I fi…

> What language can one say that they fully master?

And does it really matter if you don't? No, not at all.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#27

Post by chooseaname »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #24
CodeSheikh wrote: post #6

Unless your job demanded it I can't think of a compelling reason for a Node guy to learn C++ as their go to choice of OO language. Why not Java? Even Python is a good gateway to OO for folks coming straight form Node background.

Someone has to actually do all the native programming that powers scripting languages and VMs.

I think some people forget that it's not Javascript all the way down. Wish I could click the up arrow twice.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#29

Post by bluGill »

anuragsoni wrote: post #23

"To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it." This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when…

C++ is commonly used for large complex projects. The problem with opinions is eventually you come across something that the opinion will not allow. For a small project an opinionated build system makes things easier and you essentially never run across something that can't work. For very large projects that is not true and so you end up fighting opinions in some place.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#30

Post by imglorp »

blub wrote: post #19
hellofunk wrote: post #2

> My quest for relearning C++ started in November 2018. That’s great! I’ve been using it since 2013 and still haven’t learned it!

What language can one say that they fully master? I've been using Python since 2008-ish on and off for various scripting tasks and small tools, I can't say that I've "learned" it. They keep adding new stuff, some things I forgot, others I never needed. I've been using C++ professionally since ~2006 and for similar reasons I won't say that I master it either. Metaprogramming is a clear weak point for me, but OTOH I fi…

It's worth pointing out one measure of complexity: the Stroustrup book (4th ed) is 1376 pages, and that was 2013. Since then there's been how many layers more on top?

As a contrast, the description of Common Lisp syntax fits on a sticky note, but the library and semantics spec take about the same number of pages to describe a similar amount of functionality.

The two extremes represent different locations on the syntax-vs-library complexity tradeoff continuum.

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