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Thank u, next

words.steveklabnik.com

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Re: Thank u, next

#61

Post by madez »

steveklabnik wrote: post #11
nindalf wrote: post #6

I'm surprised and disappointed to learn that Mozilla didn't value Steve's work enough. The documentation, especially the book [1] which he authored, is the gold standard that every software project should aspire to. As someone who learned the language recently, it's possible that I might have abandoned it if the documentation and learning materials hadn't been so good. I also thought his work in evangelizing Rust on…

Thanks! To be clear, the doc work was my job, but the evangelizing wasn't. I plan on continuing both, as much as time allows.

I want to thank you, and say sorry for any snark you received in the past from me, which was usually (exclusively?) for what Mozilla did and does.

Once again, thank you for promoting Rust, which has so many benefits in so many areas, and being friendly and helpful wherever I encountered your presence.

Re: Thank u, next

#62

Post by mindcrime »

peterstjohn wrote: post #23
mindcrime wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. Last I checked Raleigh was one of the fastest growing cities in the country. And I doubt all of those people are coming from the rest of the East Coast. I'm pretty sure at least a handful of people are, indeed, moving cross country to relocate here.

We both know Durham is better though ;P

And Chapel Hill is better than both! :p

All joking aside, colloquially speaking, I assume that "Raleigh" is shorthand for the entire greater Triangle region when speaking to, or in regards to, outsiders. Personally, I live in Chapel Hill, but I consider myself a "citizen of the Triangle". :-)

Re: Thank u, next

#63

Post by dao- »

codezero wrote: post #34
dao- wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hint at it at all then? Without details it won't satisfy the curious nor help fix whatever problems there might be. As someone who still works for Mozilla out of conviction, this feels like an unnecessary low blow.

I can’t speak for steve, but having been in a similar position, hinting at it signals to peers that if they are feeling similar things, they aren’t alone. It’s easy for a lot of toxic culture to go unspoken, and to be gaslighted into thinking things are great, a post like this helps reinforce that stuff (yes vague) is not great and maybe it will lead more folks within Mozilla to pull off the rose colored glasses. Bas…

Working for Mozilla, I feel I should be able to make sense of these hints, but I can't. I have no clue what issues or missteps were deal-breakers for Steve, apart from the compensation issue. Any organization of the size will have /some/ problems, and I fail to see the usefulness of signaling that's so vague that anybody can interpret it in any way they want.

Re: Thank u, next

#64

Post by Foxboron »

codezero wrote: post #21

This is a bummer on many levels, but also personally, a bit of a relief. For a while I was considering going all-in to try to get a role at Mozilla. I really believe in their mission, and I drink the kool-aid when it comes to the browser market getting gobbled up. What held me back at the time were the company reviews. The culture sounds toxic, and the management sounds incompetent, and there's no force of change tha…

>The culture sounds toxic, and the management sounds incompetent, and there's no force of change that has done anything to change that in the past ~5 years.

The case regarding Daniel Micay and the Mozilla/Rust community is also worth looking into. But not sure how much is easy to come by as things have been deleted.

Re: Thank u, next

#65

Post by steveklabnik »

ksec wrote: post #59

1. What happen to the Ruby and Rails part of the History? 2. How on earth did you came from Pizza to Tech? 3. I read it as if you were working on Firefox Pre 1.0 and Rust in Mozilla. And I don't think that is the case? 4. Finally someone pointing out the problem with Mozilla. ( Far to often they want to play themselves as the Saint or as David vs Goliath ) 5. Have you thought about doing something with Rust and Block…

1. It just wasn't super relevant! I left the pizza job for an internship at a company doing PHP, then left that internship to do a startup in Rails.

2. The pizza job was through high school and college, I transitioned to tech after I had the degree.

3. I have never contributed to Firefox, but I have been a passionate user for years (I'm writing this comment in Firefox, for example)

5. I'm not particularly interested in blockhain stuff. There is a lot of Rust in that area though!

Thank you.

Re: Thank u, next

#66

Post by [deleted] »

nicoburns wrote: post #52
blub wrote: post #5

Mozilla sounds like your average PHB-led corporation. This is also one of the reasons I'm skeptical about Rust, since Mozilla is the backbone of Rust development. They don't strike me as an organisation that can shepherd a programming language long term and with their market share taking a nose dive they're bound to get even more desperate and cut non-essential projects or make new data-sharing partnerships. Anyways,…

What does "PHB" mean? (Google isn't giving me any answers)

[deleted]

Re: Thank u, next

#67

Post by mindcrime »

nicoburns wrote: post #52
blub wrote: post #5

Mozilla sounds like your average PHB-led corporation. This is also one of the reasons I'm skeptical about Rust, since Mozilla is the backbone of Rust development. They don't strike me as an organisation that can shepherd a programming language long term and with their market share taking a nose dive they're bound to get even more desperate and cut non-essential projects or make new data-sharing partnerships. Anyways,…

What does "PHB" mean? (Google isn't giving me any answers)

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/P/PHB.html

Think of it as roughly synonymous with "empty suit" or "airhead".

Re: Thank u, next

#68

Post by callahad »

codezero wrote: post #21

This is a bummer on many levels, but also personally, a bit of a relief. For a while I was considering going all-in to try to get a role at Mozilla. I really believe in their mission, and I drink the kool-aid when it comes to the browser market getting gobbled up. What held me back at the time were the company reviews. The culture sounds toxic, and the management sounds incompetent, and there's no force of change tha…

Mozilla isn't a monolith. Like most medium and large organizations, your experience can vary greatly between teams and management chains.

If Mozilla's mission and manifesto resonate with you, give it a shot. With Microsoft throwing their weight behind Chromium, we're the last bastion standing against a WebKit-derived monoculture. It's an impossible challenge, but it matters, and we've beaten the odds before. Current openings are at https://careers.mozilla.org/listings/, and I'd encourage you to apply.

Re: Thank u, next

#69

Post by codezero »

dao- wrote: post #63
codezero wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t speak for steve, but having been in a similar position, hinting at it signals to peers that if they are feeling similar things, they aren’t alone. It’s easy for a lot of toxic culture to go unspoken, and to be gaslighted into thinking things are great, a post like this helps reinforce that stuff (yes vague) is not great and maybe it will lead more folks within Mozilla to pull off the rose colored glasses. Bas…

Working for Mozilla, I feel I should be able to make sense of these hints, but I can't. I have no clue what issues or missteps were deal-breakers for Steve, apart from the compensation issue. Any organization of the size will have /some/ problems, and I fail to see the usefulness of signaling that's so vague that anybody can interpret it in any way they want.

Fair, then the alternative interpretation could be that he wanted to vent :)

Re: Thank u, next

#70

Post by cevn »

Steve, just wanna thank you for the excellen twork you've done at making Rust more accessible to normal people like myself. Your book is an invaluable resource to newcomers to the language.
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