I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets • Hacker News Board

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#41

Post by anuragsoni » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #29

anuragsoni wrote: post #23

"To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it." This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when…

C++ is commonly used for large complex projects. The problem with opinions is eventually you come across something that the opinion will not allow. For a small project an opinionated build system makes things easier and you essentially never run across something that can't work. For very large projects that is not true and so you end up fighting opinions in some place.

I completely agree, hence the reason I only talked about the experience for new comers. Maybe tools like conan[1], vcpkg[2] etc will help improve the situation for newcomers.

[1] https://conan.io/

[2] https://github.com/Microsoft/vcpkg

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#42

Post by itissid » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

> Because you just can’t start reading the source code of a code base from top to bottom.

This is obviously not what one should do. Read the test cases first is what I do. It makes for much quicker iteration.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#43

Post by islon » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #29

anuragsoni wrote: post #23

"To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it." This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when…

C++ is commonly used for large complex projects. The problem with opinions is eventually you come across something that the opinion will not allow. For a small project an opinionated build system makes things easier and you essentially never run across something that can't work. For very large projects that is not true and so you end up fighting opinions in some place.

Having opinions != removing choices

One can have an opinionated, canonical build system and still allow unorthodox things.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#44

Post by nindalf » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

tashoecraft wrote: post #20

russley wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ is the gateway to writing native add-ons for V8, allowing you to write performant modules to utilize in your node applications.

Think rust is going to attract more of the node guys than c++ will.

While I agree, OP also wants to dive into the internals of libuv etc.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#45

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #30

blub wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What language can one say that they fully master? I've been using Python since 2008-ish on and off for various scripting tasks and small tools, I can't say that I've "learned" it. They keep adding new stuff, some things I forgot, others I never needed. I've been using C++ professionally since ~2006 and for similar reasons I won't say that I master it either. Metaprogramming is a clear weak point for me, but OTOH I fi…

It's worth pointing out one measure of complexity: the Stroustrup book (4th ed) is 1376 pages, and that was 2013. Since then there's been how many layers more on top? As a contrast, the description of Common Lisp syntax fits on a sticky note, but the library and semantics spec take about the same number of pages to describe a similar amount of functionality. The two extremes represent different locations on the synta…

> The two extremes represent different locations on the syntax-vs-library complexity tradeoff continuum.

I'd say it's a syntax x language semantics x libraries triangle. Common Lisp may have trivial syntax, but there are some hidden gems of complexity in the language semantics level. To this day I don't really understand eval-when, and I've been using Common Lisp for the past 9 years.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#46

Post by hipokampa » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

anuragsoni wrote: post #23

"To round up, C++ does not dictate about its tooling, which basically gives lot of choices and flexibility. But at the same time it is making it complex for beginners to come in to projects and start projects with it." This was a big problem for me when I first started using C++. I don't remember it being too bad when I was just working on small projects and things I wanted to do at school. The problems started when…

All C/C++ projects I have ever seen used either cmake or autoconf build system. It's pretty standard.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#47

Post by Balero » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #2

> My quest for relearning C++ started in November 2018. That’s great! I’ve been using it since 2013 and still haven’t learned it!

I think I read somewhere Bjarne Stroustrup rated himself 7/10 at C++.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#48

Post by blub » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:41 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #32

I've learned 15+ years ago, and I stopped paying attention around ~2010, which is just before significant changes were made. Even though I read up on some features and concepts from C++11 and C++14, I feel so disconnected from what's going on as if what I learned was a completely different language. Can anyone recommend any source for someone with lots of pre-C++11 experience to get up to speed with current capabilit…

I like the Modern C++ Programming Cookbook, since you have small recipes demonstrating the new features.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#49

Post by maxxxxx » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

CyberDildonics wrote: post #24

CodeSheikh wrote: post #6

Unless your job demanded it I can't think of a compelling reason for a Node guy to learn C++ as their go to choice of OO language. Why not Java? Even Python is a good gateway to OO for folks coming straight form Node background.

Someone has to actually do all the native programming that powers scripting languages and VMs.

Very true. A lot of people don't seem to know how their favorite tools are being built.

Re: I learnt C++ in 2018 and have no regrets

#50

Post by torben-friis » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:44 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #19

hellofunk wrote: post #2

> My quest for relearning C++ started in November 2018. That’s great! I’ve been using it since 2013 and still haven’t learned it!

What language can one say that they fully master? I've been using Python since 2008-ish on and off for various scripting tasks and small tools, I can't say that I've "learned" it. They keep adding new stuff, some things I forgot, others I never needed. I've been using C++ professionally since ~2006 and for similar reasons I won't say that I master it either. Metaprogramming is a clear weak point for me, but OTOH I fi…

>What language can one say that they fully master?

Incidentally, after working with node for a couple years near really knowledgeable coworkers, it's been the first time in my life as a developer that I feel I have a near complete understanding of the language I'm using.

Granted, most of that feeling probably comes from the small standard library (which is the root of several important issues, as we all know), and the feeling adds nothing to your life as a developer except for a vague sense of comfort, but it's still nice.