Live data from Hacker News

The Hand Licking Incident

raisingfutureadults.blogspot.com

51–60 of 358 posts

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#51

It's so easy for parents (and teachers) to misdiagnose strange child behaviors. TFA is a wonderful example. Parents need to watch for things like blood sugar problems, autism (e.g., failure to make eye contact), skin problems, mild food allergies (why does the kid not like _fill in the blank_, maybe it's because it tastes "spicy" to them), and much else. Young children will not figure these things out by themselves.…

> "It might be interesting to collate a compendium of strange child behaviors with simple explanations, and other problems to watch out for."

I couldn't disagree more. This seems like a step in the wrong direction. The last thing we need to do is label even more human behaviors than we already do into the bucket of "strange." Actually, even saying that parents need to "debug" these problems may be going too far. Humans are much more complicated than a machine that must work "just so."

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#52

It never ceases to amaze me how many authority figures think violence “fixes” a behaviour, rather than simply causing the issue to be hidden and breaking down trust and then later having it resurface many times worse.

Were you given any courses on parenting in school?

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#53
post #5

It never ceases to amaze me how many authority figures think violence “fixes” a behaviour, rather than simply causing the issue to be hidden and breaking down trust and then later having it resurface many times worse.

> It never ceases to amaze me how many authority figures think violence “fixes” a behaviour I think it's safe to assume that most humans currently alive were spanked as children and most parents alive today spank their children. If that assumption is true, than it's not amazing... it's just the norm.

In the UK it is actually illegal to smack your kid... so it's not like corporal punishment is still the norm now.

There is also a large portion of parents who have rejected corporal punishment and opted for 'peaceful parenting' techniques from a moralistic perspective based on the non-aggression principle.

Even if you don't agree on moral grounds there have been loads of research papers written on this topic. The papers I have read have helped me make my mind up as I was once in the "spare the rod, spoil the child" camp.

For example, spanking by parents can significantly damage a child’s mental abilities and results in a lower IQ later in life (study by researchers at the University of New Hampshire).

Additionally researchers have found that harsh physical punishment was associated with increased odds of mood disorders, anxiety disorders, alcohol and drug abuse/dependence, and several personality disorders after adjusting for sociodemographic variables and family dysfunction, and that if harsh physical punishment did not occur, the prevalence of certain mental disorders might have been reduced by ~2% to 7%.

There are tons more studies on this.

So, if you consider your role as a parent to include giving your child the best chance at life you need to seriously evaluate the body of evidence against using corporal punishment.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#54

It never ceases to amaze me how many authority figures think violence “fixes” a behaviour, rather than simply causing the issue to be hidden and breaking down trust and then later having it resurface many times worse.

Eh... I can count on a shop teacher's hand the number of times I was actually spanked or swatted when I was a kid, but after talking to my Mom about it, I think she made the right choice the times she did. To give a specific example, once was when I was about five, I had just learned about electromagnets, and was actively trying to shove bare wire into an outlet. Yes, the spanking did make me a little afraid of pokin…

> But appropriately, rarely applied, I can say with certainty it worked for me.

No, you can't. Maybe it did, but you don't know how you'd acted if they'd just talked to you instead. It's easy to think we can untangle how a given event shaped us, but we really are horribly bad at it.

It ignores that people who never were spanked regularly can tell similar stories about just having been talked to (that's how I learned not to stuff wires in outlets). You can't tell if they are right about how it affected their behaviour either. In either situation we're guessing based on how it made us feel.

I don't think the very occasional spank is likely to be massively damaging, but I also don't think its necessary - I grew up around the time it was outlawed in Norway in the 80's. It was publicised enough that the one time my mother slapped me when I was a child, I threatened to call the police because I'd heard about it on the radio.

People insisted the change in the law would be a disaster and that children needed to be spanked, and it'd be all doom and gloom.

It was largely a non-event, apart from some pastor that made a big point of protesting and telling everyone how he still spanked his children.

Children still learn not to put wires in electrical outlets whether their parents spank them or not (as I'm writing this, I've had flashes of recollection of scary scenarios that feel like they may have been things I was told about as a child, but I really has no way of knowing if that's a real memory or "fabricated"). There was no massive rise in badly behaved children, or sudden surge of people electrocuting themselves. Of course, nor did it make us all magically better adjusted.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#55
post #5

It never ceases to amaze me how many authority figures think violence “fixes” a behaviour, rather than simply causing the issue to be hidden and breaking down trust and then later having it resurface many times worse.

> It never ceases to amaze me how many authority figures think violence “fixes” a behaviour I think it's safe to assume that most humans currently alive were spanked as children and most parents alive today spank their children. If that assumption is true, than it's not amazing... it's just the norm.

For what it's worth, I think that assumption very well might not be true. But I also suspect it would be very hard to find out real numbers for that.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If violence worked, the drug war would be over because people would not take drugs. .. and there would be no crime and police would have only one encounter with each person. Clearly this isn’t true, so it suggests there was an alternative to violence that could have been applied in your youth.

You receive the special hacker news award for shittiest extrapolation - 2019.

If violence worked as a strategy, then it would work better the more of it was applied. Instead, what we see is that the more violence applied, the worse the outcome in the long run.

This indicates it’s not a solution.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#57

It's so easy for parents (and teachers) to misdiagnose strange child behaviors. TFA is a wonderful example. Parents need to watch for things like blood sugar problems, autism (e.g., failure to make eye contact), skin problems, mild food allergies (why does the kid not like _fill in the blank_, maybe it's because it tastes "spicy" to them), and much else. Young children will not figure these things out by themselves.…

I don't understand when will medicine recognize the cause of all health complications instead of trying to individually path each and every problem. People can then start correct precautionary measures. All health issues that we see on rise today were virtually absent in pre-industrial era and are directly result of our newly adopted habits and environment. We are paying so much of cost to live in a "modern" world.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#58
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's helped me cope with pressure from bosses was the realization that when they're shitting on someone, it's usually because their own boss is shitting on them (and on upwards). Then it's less personal, less an issue of someone in authority judging your performance, and becomes more of a team effort/problem: I will try to fix the issues, so that my boss's issue goes away, so his boss's issue goes away, and then we…

But a good manager is a shit umbrella, keeping the shit off you. I'm supportive of providing solutions so that everyone's lives improve, but one must be careful not to give the impression that the way to make the underlings perform is to let the shit roll downhill.

But most line managers and a lot of executive level managers have literally never had any training in management, so sometimes they're just copying bad behaviours from people above/around them, even when they were things they themselves hated before getting promoted.

A "I'm working as fast as I can. These interruptions are not helping. You can help get it sorted faster by keeping people off my back - I promise to update you as soon as I know anything" can be enough. Carry through, and give them enough to go back to their boss with to keep them away, and show them it actually lets you fix the problem, and thank them for helping afterwards, and they'll soon learn to prefer shielding you.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#59
post #51

It's so easy for parents (and teachers) to misdiagnose strange child behaviors. TFA is a wonderful example. Parents need to watch for things like blood sugar problems, autism (e.g., failure to make eye contact), skin problems, mild food allergies (why does the kid not like _fill in the blank_, maybe it's because it tastes "spicy" to them), and much else. Young children will not figure these things out by themselves.…

> "It might be interesting to collate a compendium of strange child behaviors with simple explanations, and other problems to watch out for." I couldn't disagree more. This seems like a step in the wrong direction. The last thing we need to do is label even more human behaviors than we already do into the bucket of "strange." Actually, even saying that parents need to "debug" these problems may be going too far. Huma…

Humans are definitely more complex than machines. But that complexity often causes people to jump to incorrect assumptions, or even just shut down in the face of that complexity. Breaking the problem down into what you know and then solving for what you don’t is an incredibly helpful method for addressing issues that can be fraught with emotion.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#60
post #48
post #44

My take on this is that sometimes problems are really hard to solve on your own or at all at the time. It seems like if there was money then the behavior was so persistent that it actually warranted outside help from some type of specialist. So instead of just continually putting pressure the husband should have acknowledged that it was not a normal parenting issue and looked for a psychiatrist or something. The othe…

The thing that jumps out at me is that it took months and months to ask the simple question, "why are you doing that?" Also, in this case the undesirable behaviour had a perfectly benign and easily fixable root cause, but that's not always (or even mostly?) true. In many cases my kids will be misbehaving because they're not getting what they want, eg. icecream for dinner or to not go to bed on time. In cases like the…

The article mentions that she tried grilling her son about why he was doing this early on, without success.
Post reply on HN