The Hand Licking Incident • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#41

Post by georgebarnett » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:35 AM UTC

Baeocystin wrote: post #16

georgebarnett wrote: post #2

It never ceases to amaze me how many authority figures think violence “fixes” a behaviour, rather than simply causing the issue to be hidden and breaking down trust and then later having it resurface many times worse.

Eh... I can count on a shop teacher's hand the number of times I was actually spanked or swatted when I was a kid, but after talking to my Mom about it, I think she made the right choice the times she did. To give a specific example, once was when I was about five, I had just learned about electromagnets, and was actively trying to shove bare wire into an outlet. Yes, the spanking did make me a little afraid of pokin…

If violence worked, the drug war would be over because people would not take drugs.

.. and there would be no crime and police would have only one encounter with each person.

Clearly this isn’t true, so it suggests there was an alternative to violence that could have been applied in your youth.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#42

Post by darkerside » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:39 AM UTC

chasing wrote: post #37

> Meanwhile, our relationship grew more acrimonious. He clearly no longer trusted me and this was beginning to poison all our interactions. > Finally, I had this moment where I felt that my efforts to ramp up the pressure to force him to stop had crossed some line. I felt I was turning into an abusive parent. #$@#%?!??! What the hell is wrong with this person? It's hand-licking. The child isn't sticking forks in outl…

You've obviously not been in a position like this before, so let me share a thought. It was really difficult for the author to admit these things. She didn't paint herself in a positive light. You were treated to raw honesty in a way that is ever more rare in a society where our words can haunt us for decades. And you react, not by appreciating this gesture, but by judging it, and from a wildly underinformed perspective.

It's ok not to have empathy for situations you haven't been in, but I recommend you handle it by asking and seeking to learn. Not to say you don't have some valid thoughts in there, but man, you are missing out on a ton of unspoken context.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#43

Post by chasing » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:44 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #39

jachee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in Kansas are quite conservative, generally. She also mentions her husband being military. I'm sure the combination of those factors helped lead to her becoming de facto sole child rearer.

In fact, he was gone six months out of the year the entire time we were in Kansas. It was the worst duty station in that regard in roughly two decades as a military family.

The tone of my original comment had a bit more "shouting at the TV" to it than it should've. Apologies for that. It's tough to comment on people's lives and kids even if you know them -- much more so if you don't.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#44

Post by ilaksh » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:50 AM UTC

My take on this is that sometimes problems are really hard to solve on your own or at all at the time. It seems like if there was money then the behavior was so persistent that it actually warranted outside help from some type of specialist. So instead of just continually putting pressure the husband should have acknowledged that it was not a normal parenting issue and looked for a psychiatrist or something.

The other part of this is that it seemed like the real solution only came when the child was able to communicate better. So this reminds me of many technical problems I have had in a way. Most technical problems cannot talk of course. But they were similar in that the solution only came when the true cause of the problem came to light. Anyway maybe there is some commonality between a pre-speech child with a behavior problem and a thorny technical issue.

I guess I am lucky in a way that I only need to deal with technical issues because systems usually operate on a totally logical basis and it seems much less stressful than dealing with children.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#45

Post by chasing » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:52 AM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #42

chasing wrote: post #37

> Meanwhile, our relationship grew more acrimonious. He clearly no longer trusted me and this was beginning to poison all our interactions. > Finally, I had this moment where I felt that my efforts to ramp up the pressure to force him to stop had crossed some line. I felt I was turning into an abusive parent. #$@#%?!??! What the hell is wrong with this person? It's hand-licking. The child isn't sticking forks in outl…

You've obviously not been in a position like this before, so let me share a thought. It was really difficult for the author to admit these things. She didn't paint herself in a positive light. You were treated to raw honesty in a way that is ever more rare in a society where our words can haunt us for decades. And you react, not by appreciating this gesture, but by judging it, and from a wildly underinformed perspect…

Okay, but she did write it up and it wound up on Hacker News, so I do feel it reasonable to comment on. Don't assume I didn't think about the piece. And I cringed hard specifically because of my empathy for the child in that situation, having his relationship with his mom harmed for reasons he didn't understand.

I did apologize for the tone in a direct reply to the author -- that's fair.

Also: Maybe don't assume what positions I have or have not been in as a parent.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#46

Post by barry-cotter » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 3:56 AM UTC

georgebarnett wrote: post #41

Baeocystin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... I can count on a shop teacher's hand the number of times I was actually spanked or swatted when I was a kid, but after talking to my Mom about it, I think she made the right choice the times she did. To give a specific example, once was when I was about five, I had just learned about electromagnets, and was actively trying to shove bare wire into an outlet. Yes, the spanking did make me a little afraid of pokin…

If violence worked, the drug war would be over because people would not take drugs. .. and there would be no crime and police would have only one encounter with each person. Clearly this isn’t true, so it suggests there was an alternative to violence that could have been applied in your youth.

Drugs are much more expensive and more difficult to procure than they would be if they were legal, so reducing consumption. On that basis the drug war clearly works.

If violence is unnecessary and there’s always an alternative why are all states fundamentally enforced and maintained by violence?

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#47

Post by cryptonector » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 4:00 AM UTC

It's so easy for parents (and teachers) to misdiagnose strange child behaviors. TFA is a wonderful example. Parents need to watch for things like blood sugar problems, autism (e.g., failure to make eye contact), skin problems, mild food allergies (why does the kid not like _fill in the blank_, maybe it's because it tastes "spicy" to them), and much else.

Young children will not figure these things out by themselves. Parents need to "debug" these problems. Doctors may not be able to help until you have some idea.

It might be interesting to collate a compendium of strange child behaviors with simple explanations, and other problems to watch out for.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#48

Post by taneq » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 4:07 AM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #44

My take on this is that sometimes problems are really hard to solve on your own or at all at the time. It seems like if there was money then the behavior was so persistent that it actually warranted outside help from some type of specialist. So instead of just continually putting pressure the husband should have acknowledged that it was not a normal parenting issue and looked for a psychiatrist or something. The othe…

The thing that jumps out at me is that it took months and months to ask the simple question, "why are you doing that?"

Also, in this case the undesirable behaviour had a perfectly benign and easily fixable root cause, but that's not always (or even mostly?) true. In many cases my kids will be misbehaving because they're not getting what they want, eg. icecream for dinner or to not go to bed on time. In cases like these, it's the parents' job to say no. Of course it's very important to understand the child's real motivations but often it's going to come down them just wanting something they can't have.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#49

Post by random314 » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 4:07 AM UTC

georgebarnett wrote: post #41

Baeocystin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... I can count on a shop teacher's hand the number of times I was actually spanked or swatted when I was a kid, but after talking to my Mom about it, I think she made the right choice the times she did. To give a specific example, once was when I was about five, I had just learned about electromagnets, and was actively trying to shove bare wire into an outlet. Yes, the spanking did make me a little afraid of pokin…

If violence worked, the drug war would be over because people would not take drugs. .. and there would be no crime and police would have only one encounter with each person. Clearly this isn’t true, so it suggests there was an alternative to violence that could have been applied in your youth.

You receive the special hacker news award for shittiest extrapolation - 2019.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#50

Post by sneak » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 4:08 AM UTC

georgebarnett wrote: post #2

It never ceases to amaze me how many authority figures think violence “fixes” a behaviour, rather than simply causing the issue to be hidden and breaking down trust and then later having it resurface many times worse.

“Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.” —Asimov