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Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

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71–80 of 233 posts

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#71
post #15

I'm pretty sure Google and other large networks also build 'shadow profiles' on users to figure out who they are, who they're connected to, etc. And I wonder if this shady profiling data should be available for users to download under e.g. GDPR. Because it sounds to me like it should, but isn't.

If any europeans with spare time and no Facebook account are reading this, get a lawyer (maybe related to the EFF, or not), and send a GPDR request.

When it comes back “no data”, record yourself signing up for a FB account, since at that point, they’ll list suggested contacts that cover pretty much everyone you know.

(Even if this doesn’t work as I predict, it’d document what they’re doing for gpdr compliance.)

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#72
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you gaining in exchange for making your life harder?

Increased battery life for one. It used to be easier to toggle on older Android phones because there was a default shortcut in the slide-down menu, now it requires going through the settings at least on Google Android. edit: Huh, turns out you can add a toggle. I can't believe I never noticed that, thanks!

On newer versions of Android, I believe there ought to be an option to edit the slide-down menu in the slide-down menu itself. Expand it all the way, and look for a pencil icon. You should be able to add a location toggle that way.

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? You're saying companies file patents on tech they don't intend on using so they don't get sued by patent trolls for their non-use of some other preexisting patent? That doesn't make sense on any level. And if you don't think such a thing would be useful to a company like this (if it could really be made to work) you aren't using your imagination properly.

> What? You're saying companies file patents on tech they don't intend on using so they don't get sued by patent trolls for their non-use of some other preexisting patent? That doesn't make sense on any level. Why does that not make sense? This has been the case at every job I've worked withe patent filing incentives. You get a few thousand dollars for coming up with an idea and going through the motions of writing t…

Okay, I get that it adds value to the company. But what do you mean by defense? How is filing patents that you don't intend to produce so you can win legal battles any different from patent trolling?

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#74
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increased battery life for one. It used to be easier to toggle on older Android phones because there was a default shortcut in the slide-down menu, now it requires going through the settings at least on Google Android. edit: Huh, turns out you can add a toggle. I can't believe I never noticed that, thanks!

On newer versions of Android, I believe there ought to be an option to edit the slide-down menu in the slide-down menu itself. Expand it all the way, and look for a pencil icon. You should be able to add a location toggle that way.

There is. Invert colors is very useful when reading HN at night.

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#75
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been floored that people leave their location services turned on by default. I have mine on for no more than a few minutes a month. I only turn it on when I'm in an unfamiliar location, don't have my bearings, and looking at the map alone isn't enough to help without GPS.

What are you gaining in exchange for making your life harder?

With something like Tasker this doesn't need to be laborious at all (I have location turn on while certain apps are in use, e.g. Osmand~, and turn off otherwise). And, tin-hattery aside, it has power-saving advantages.

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#76
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The image that's gathered when the camera is completely in the dark, is a unique fingerprint of the camera chip. This is something called "fixed pattern noise."

In that case just put on a few more layers. Shot noise is fairly random.

Dark-Signal Non Uniformity (DSNU):

https://harvestimaging.com/blog/?p=814

So likely to provide a few bits of entropy.

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#77

What's the news story here? Tech companies file innumerable number of patents without implementing them to cover the space in case they get sued so they can retaliate. Realistically this patent wouldn't actually be useful in practice for the proposed application but would be useful if written carefully enough to countersue for unrelated applications of the tech.

What? You're saying companies file patents on tech they don't intend on using so they don't get sued by patent trolls for their non-use of some other preexisting patent? That doesn't make sense on any level. And if you don't think such a thing would be useful to a company like this (if it could really be made to work) you aren't using your imagination properly.

Actually having my name on a few patents I feel like I can speak with a bit more authority. Yes, companies file patents all the time on tech they have no actual plans to implement in production. They may not even have a proof of concept. This happens for all sorts of reasons.

Part of the reason is that companies would rather err on the side of obtaining a patent on something patentable rather than miss it & get sued by someone else. Another reason is that it can easily turn out that there are significant technical challenges in productizing an idea but you don't find out until well after you've filed the patent.

There's also a defensive aspect. For patent trolls you want to beat them to filing the patent so you have a far easier legal defence - America was first to file until very recently so that was also a significant incentive in filing defensive patents. For competitors you want to have the patent so that if it turns out a successful product by another company relies on your product heavily you can use it offensively or defensively in case that competitor comes after you (traditionally the bigger Silicon Valley companies have preferred to stick to defensive use of patents against competitors but that isn't always the case).

Finally there's a financial incentive to this from the employee side. Patents bring you bonuses and prestige. That means you have an incentive to push even questionable patents through the process. The patent filing process is completely divorced from marketing AFAIK (haven't sat on any review boards) so no one ever considers the negative PR risk from articles like this (probably rightly so).

> And if you don't think such a thing would be useful to a company like this (if it could really be made to work) you aren't using your imagination properly.

Of course it would be useful. However realistically the engineer in me thinks that when deployed at scale suddenly it can become a lot less useful than other more straightforward methods; both in terms of compute & memory required as well as accuracy. There are cheaper more accurate ways to solve this so why bother wth something so complex/expensive that carries significant PR risk? In fact, FB owning & not using this patent means they can win PR brownie points suing companies that do attempt to use this technique.

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old cameras didn't exactly fit in your pocket, and didn't have sapphire glass... Though I do think it would be nice to have a hardware (iris?) way to close off the camera. Some laptops have this, though I'm sad mine doesn't.

They are available for phones and laptops, e.g. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B66VZ97/

That's pretty nice. I'll have to see if I can find some designed for ThinkPads and Samsung phones.

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#79
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What? You're saying companies file patents on tech they don't intend on using so they don't get sued by patent trolls for their non-use of some other preexisting patent? That doesn't make sense on any level. Why does that not make sense? This has been the case at every job I've worked withe patent filing incentives. You get a few thousand dollars for coming up with an idea and going through the motions of writing t…

Okay, I get that it adds value to the company. But what do you mean by defense? How is filing patents that you don't intend to produce so you can win legal battles any different from patent trolling?

The "defense" part is that big company X with a large patent portfolio might sue you for infringing on a patent - unless you have a large patent portfolio because then if they sue you, your lawyers can review everything they're doing and compare it to your patent portfolio and find ways to sue them. This is something like mutually assured destruction.

It seems preposterous to me, but this is also the basic idea I've got from working at multiple big companies where they have training meetings to explain these things. You're very much encouraged to come up with ideas and submit them for the lawyers to look at and possibly patent even if it has no applicability to anything you're doing.

Re: Facebook Knows How to Track You Using the Dust on Your Camera Lens

#80
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really easy to do. At a hackathon in 2012 our team in just a few hours built tech that would detect who you were standing next to or walking past, all while your phone is in your pocket - we were trying to build a tool that would replace exchanging business cards at conferences.

Can you go into more detail with how that worked?

Not OP, but I'm guessing signal strength measurements, so if 2 devices report similar values they must be close to each other. And then just add the gyroscope info.
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