Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash • Hacker News Board

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#191

Post by Nomentatus » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

slazaro wrote: post #77

snarfy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are assholes to smokers. Like, it's socially acceptable to be assholes to smokers these days. I've had random people on an almost daily basis harass me for smoking. Flicking my butts on the ground was a big fuck you to all of the non smokers that harassed me.

Being an asshole to assholes... makes you an asshole regardless.

An essential part of civility is pointing out acts of incivility.

In contrast, many moderns seem to believe that merely acknowledging the possibility of incivility, is itself the height of incivility. But that's nihilism, not civility.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#192

Post by darkpuma » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

headstorm wrote: post #177

darkpuma wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I want to see you complain about the inconsiderateness of people wearing perfume and of people that smell of smoke after they sit around campfires." People who wear perfume have the excuse of believing they were being considerate, their fault is ignorance not selfishness. No smoker can earnestly claim they made themselves smell like an ash tray because they believed other people would appreciate it. As for camp fi…

You are acting as an apologist for every scent that you personally don't mind. You are the one who digressed away from pollution to odor. Let go of your hate, please. And please stop conflating odor with pollution, it is not becoming of you.

>You are acting as an apologist for every scent that you personally don't mind.

On the contrary, I defended the moral character of people who wear perfume, not the stench of perfume, since they do not categorically possess the same moral defect as smokers. (And I didn't defend in any way people who smell like campfires. People who go camping should bath before presenting themselves in public, they have absolutely no excuse.) Did you even read my post or did you assume the contents of it?

Which each passing year, as cigarette smoking becomes less and less popular, the portion of the population who hate for the stench of people who smoke will only rise. A majority of the public in first world nations agrees with me, and that's not going to diminish. Smokers are left with a choice, either they change or they weather the hate they rightfully get from the rest of us.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#193

Post by wutbrodo » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

shireboy wrote: post #74

kevcampb wrote: post #60

The Ocean Conservancy report has been cited by quite a few articles now, and it pains me every time I see it. As ever, the conclusions drawn are quite misleading. 1) The source of the data is cleanup on beaches, not ocean trash. If anything it's more likely to be representative of items discarded on beaches or waterways. 2) Cigarette butts are greatest purely in number of individual pieces, not in terms of weight or…

Then it was also 10 Asian rivers that account for most plastic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas... I guess I understand it is a hard problem to calculate, but it is an area where I wish the approach was more reasoned and less governed by fad and hype. Sure clean and prevent straws and cigarette butts if that’s really a problem, but divvy our resources in proportion to where data says the…

I'm probably what you'd call an environmentalist, but the movement is wrought with people who are more concerned with getting high off of self-flagellating moral outrage than fixing problems. Legislative solutions to large polluters and trash generators don't feel like penance in the same way that individual sacrifices do, so a huge chunk of people who are nominally concerned with environmental issues misallocate their complaints, wrt the actual severity of polluters.

I'm not sure this is solvable, humans being what they are, and I don't think it's unique to environmental issues.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#194

Post by qwerty456127 » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

uxp100 wrote: post #128

qwerty456127 wrote: post #122

Why do people even smoke cigarettes when there are vapes for those who just want to inhale and exhale a cloud getting nicotine and cigars for those who want to enjoy real tobacco? Cigarettes are disgusting, toxic, expensive (as compared to a supply of liquid) and inconvenient (as you can't just inhale at any time you want). Why non-biodegradable cig filters are still not outlawed is another mystery.

Cigarettes taste like burning paper, and at their best smell just OK, but most smokers aren't walking around with cigarillos, despite the better ones tasting and smelling very nice. It's about nicotine delivery, and even the new hit with the kids, Juul, seems not as nice as a cigarette to me as a very infrequent nicotine user. Maybe box mods are different, I've only every tried the types of vapes you can get at tobac…

> It's about nicotine delivery, and even the new hit with the kids, Juul, seems not as nice as a cigarette to me as a very infrequent nicotine user. Maybe box mods are different, I've only every tried the types of vapes you can get at tobacco shops and gas stations and such.

Box mods are indeed different. And you don't really need a box mod, good beginner-level devices (from ~$50 and up) charged with an adequately strong liquid do the job great and don't require any special skill. The devices usually sold at gas stations are worth nothing more than a temporary emergency cigarette replacement and Juul is, you know, for kids. As a very infrequent nicotine user you have no reason to care but if you smoked regularly I'd advice to pay your local specialized vape shop a visit and ask the guys what can they recommend.

> As a side note, I'm surprised snuff isn't more popular.

I've bought some snuff once I've forgotten my vape at home and my impression is it's the best tool to quit smoking! Every time you use it - it's a jump of courage and tears, snot and head-shot feeling after it. It's a so damn strong mentol charge I feel like I'd rather eat a Carolina Reaper. Even though I've taken the box that doesn't mention menthol.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#195

Post by sitkack » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:05 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #193

shireboy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it was also 10 Asian rivers that account for most plastic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas... I guess I understand it is a hard problem to calculate, but it is an area where I wish the approach was more reasoned and less governed by fad and hype. Sure clean and prevent straws and cigarette butts if that’s really a problem, but divvy our resources in proportion to where data says the…

I'm probably what you'd call an environmentalist, but the movement is wrought with people who are more concerned with getting high off of self-flagellating moral outrage than fixing problems. Legislative solutions to large polluters and trash generators don't feel like penance in the same way that individual sacrifices do, so a huge chunk of people who are nominally concerned with environmental issues misallocate the…

We probably need (but don’t want) algorithmic control of our actions.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#196

Post by qwerty456127 » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:19 PM UTC

jacobush wrote: post #131

uxp100 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes taste like burning paper, and at their best smell just OK, but most smokers aren't walking around with cigarillos, despite the better ones tasting and smelling very nice. It's about nicotine delivery, and even the new hit with the kids, Juul, seems not as nice as a cigarette to me as a very infrequent nicotine user. Maybe box mods are different, I've only every tried the types of vapes you can get at tobac…

Snuff taken the way I know it, under the upper lip, gives a slower hit but a much stronger hit than cigarettes. What I wonder is about the new "vape-like" pens which heats (real) tobacco but doesn't burn it. If that is similar enough to cigarettes to win cigarette smokers over. I would think so, but I'm not a real smoker (only tried a few times) so can't offer my own anecdata.

> What I wonder is about the new "vape-like" pens which heats (real) tobacco but doesn't burn it.

I see many people around using it nowadays but I'm sure I wouldn't prefer this over a good vape and I've also heard it's dangerous as it may also be heating the filter together with the tobacco so you actually inhale extra toxines.

BTW about vapes - although I believe these are generally healthier than any kind of cigarettes (and so do many doctors unofficially) I've heard many liquids (usually flavoured like vanilla, maple, coconut or caramel) contain diacetyl, pentanedione and/or acetoin so you can "popcorn lung" syndrome (which is much more dangerous than what ordinary cigs do) quickly [1]

[1] http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/e-cigarette-...

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#197

Post by woobar » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:51 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #40

darkpuma wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inconsiderate: thoughtlessly causing hurt or inconvenience to others. Smokers are inconsiderate because they thoughtlessly cause harm or inconvenience to others by smelling offensive. They brush off the objections of all non-smokers and tell the rest of the world to fuck off because they selfishly prefer smoking to not causing olfactory offense.

I assure you that not all non-smokers find the mere smell of a smoker’s clothes as offensive as you apparently do. There are lots of smells that I don’t like, particularly the smells of certain foods. I don’t call people who cook or eat those foods inconsiderate.

Even smokers in other threads here complain how cigarette butts smell.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#198

Post by headstorm » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:57 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #192

headstorm wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are acting as an apologist for every scent that you personally don't mind. You are the one who digressed away from pollution to odor. Let go of your hate, please. And please stop conflating odor with pollution, it is not becoming of you.

> You are acting as an apologist for every scent that you personally don't mind. On the contrary, I defended the moral character of people who wear perfume, not the stench of perfume, since they do not categorically possess the same moral defect as smokers. (And I didn't defend in any way people who smell like campfires. People who go camping should bath before presenting themselves in public, they have absolutely no…

"Moral defect"? Please, leave that tired language in the 19th century. I reject your appeal to popularity as well.

I don't like tobacco smoke either, but I think you're judging a lot of people way more harshly than is healthy for public discourse.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#199

Post by JeanMarcS » Sun, Jan 06, 2019, 12:44 AM UTC

andybak wrote: post #65

JeanMarcS wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A personal anecdote: when I was a student in CS, back in the early nineties, I was working in a gas station the WE. A fellow student, now leading IT department in a European airport, was visiting me and we were chatting outdoor, just nearby the little shop I was in to cash. And then he lights a cig. I asked him if he was ok doing that in a gas station, and he responds me something like well, we are far enough (and th…

(WE = weekend - I had to pause to parse that. Two letter abbreviations suck)

Sorry about that. It’s (oddly when you think about it) a common abbreviation in French.

Yeah, in France we use the English word weekend (amongst a lot of other)

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#200

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Jan 06, 2019, 2:02 AM UTC

eesmith wrote: post #178

thaumasiotes wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No benefits? > The heaviest smokers, with everything else being equal, had about half the number of parasitic eggs in their stool, compared to everyone else > Smoking kills. But if you’re a bird and if you want to kill parasites, that can be a good thing. City birds have taken to stuffing their nests with cigarette butts to poison potential parasites. > 8 intestinal parasite species have been recovered singly or in c…

As far as I can tell, the references you gave do not support your implication that there are benefits to nicotine smoking. "The heaviest smokers" refers to THC smokers, not nicotine, which is the topic at hand. It may be that nicotine smoking does the same, but your reference does not show that that has been demonstrated outside of a Petri dish. The "no benefits" refers to human health, not birds. Even with humans, s…

- They may not prove that there are benefits to smoking tobacco, but they certainly do support the idea.

- The claim is that smoking cigarettes has benefits, not that smoking nicotine does.

- The idea of calling the lungs a single central hub is, as you acknowledge, that in order to move through the circulatory system it is necessary to pass through the lungs. There is no alternative route which offers the chance to bypass the lungs. If the heart were also a central hub, it would be possible for blood to move from an extremity to the heart and back out to another extremity without passing through the lungs, but of course in reality it isn't. Drawing the blood flow network, if you wanted to distinguish the heart from the lungs, you'd need to place the lungs node between a node for the right heart and another node for the left heart.