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Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

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Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#211

Post by mac01021 »

kiriakasis wrote: post #209
mac01021 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the GP and think we probably should have more socialized hospitals. But suggesting people who oppose publicly funded freeways should boycott publicly funded freeways is silly. Imagine an office Christmas party where everyone is told to chip in for refreshments and then the refreshments will be whatever the boss ends up buying with that money. I may not like that arrangement, and may prefer to keep my money an…

Right, indeed I think that in this situation eating the salad does not prevent you from criticizing the party. But this is the point, you were "forced" to pay for something and you would be okay with not getting it. If only the people who paid for the Christmas party were invited that would be okay. Do you think this reasoning should also apply to streets and hospitals? (I am specifically referring to using the word…

> Do you think this reasoning should also apply to streets and hospitals?

Probably not.

But neither do I find it hypocritical to utilize publicly funded medicine (since you already paid in) while also opposing it (because you would be willing to forgo it to avoid paying in). The opposition is perhaps cruel or inconsiderate of others, but certainly not hypocritical. People who construe it as such are either confused or intellectually dishonest.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#212

Post by bdamm »

Scoundreller wrote: post #135
bdamm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but it’s probably done by auditing resources to treatment records. The actual patient needn’t be involved. And in countries like Canada you may end up with multiple operating agencies that are competing for efficiency, such as Coastal Health vs Providence, even though ultimately it’s the government footing the bill.

Providence is under Vancouver Coastal health. The authorities aren’t competing with each other (well, not really) as they have their own geographic catchments.

Right, but they're able to be audited against each other, even though they have separate geographic catchments. Significant discrepancies can be then analyzed.

Folks who view single-payer as a system without checks need to know how those checks do in fact occur.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#213

Post by toymachiner62 »

nradov wrote: post #54
bm98 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standards like SMART-on-FHIR [1] and CDS Hooks [2] have the potential to allow innovation developed outside of Epic and Cerner inside of those products. Both of those vendors even have "App Stores" [3] [4]. So far, though, there aren't a lot of apps in these stores, and none of my doctors (all of whom work for large academic medical centers and use Epic) have access to any third-party apps - so I do wonder whether th…

Epic, Cerner, and their major competitors are actually a lot more open now and no longer putting up major roadblocks. The real roadblocks appear to be in the hospital and clinic IT departments. They have to upgrade to a current version of the EHR which supports SMART on FHIR (many organizations are several versions behind) and then enable the app store feature. Some organizations have concerns about using third-party…

Although FHIR is very complete, it's still implemented wayyy too many different ways. There are like a million fields, most of them are optional so it's always a crapshoot what data you actually get from the API responses.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#214

Post by Joky »

olefoo wrote: post #109
Joky wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If medical care is free It is never "free" (almost nothing is). Costs are usually covered through (forced) mutualization (usually through taxes).

If you are that strong a believer in the evils of socialism do you avoid Freeways, airports and the internet? All of which depend on public subsidy.

> If you are that strong a believer in the evils of socialism do you avoid Freeways, airports and the internet?

Well you are conflating a few things here, it not black and white. It is funny to see how stating something that seems obvious to me gets me downvoted and categorized as an extremist anti-socialism...

I see some evils in socialism, but probably not the one you believe. For instance claiming that healthcare is free in a socialist country is one of the most evil aspect of it. My main grief is that people treats it as something that they can waste and don't need to be careful about. Same for "free" universities: student thinking it is "free" don't have much pressure to actually take the most of it and be careful about their choice (let's do a first year of sociology studies after high school because I don't know what I really want to do, and then I can still do a first year of psychology studies, and I'll figure later what I'll do with all this...).

On the other hand, after growing up in France and now living in the US, I learnt that this is all not free and I consider this very previous for the French society. I won't advocate against these welfare benefits, on the opposite I think they should reinforced in many ways however I would like the state of mind of people to change with respect to these "free" benefits, starting by stopping to use the word "free".

As a concrete action, I would send the full healthcare statements to patients, showing how much it costs and how much the taxpayers money is offsetting. I was in the hospital in France multiple times, I have no idea how much it costs, I didn't pay anything as far as I remember, and didn't have a statement. The same approach can be used for University and other welfare benefit.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#215

Post by Joky »

kiriakasis wrote: post #190
mac01021 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Noone said anything about the evils of socialism. 2. Why do you expect people to refrain from using services they've been forced to pay for?

Generally because stating it as "being forced to pay" often comes with a hint of it being wrong. So the question could have been: do you think we should have free/socialized streets/hospitals? If not how do you think they are different?

The forced was a parenthesis, you're focusing on the wrong aspect of the message.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#216

Post by Joky »

analog31 wrote: post #178
Joky wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If medical care is free It is never "free" (almost nothing is). Costs are usually covered through (forced) mutualization (usually through taxes).

To me, this just sounds like something normal and beneficial, described in scary-sounding words.

I don't say it isn't beneficial (actually I agree with this, but I consider this more an opinion than a fact), the notion of "normal" is a bit subjective so I won't comment on this, but what did you feel was "scary-sounding"? I thought this was fairly stating something that should be obvious.
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