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Hurricane Electric 3D network map

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Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#21

Post by scurvy »

kev009 wrote: post #2

It doesn't have the flash in the pan moment of sucesss like a unicorn startup but these guys will make billions some day due to all the peering agreements and interconnect (most the long haul is probably leased), especially as IPv6 takes majority prominence in the coming years. Excellent slow burner kind of business and smart customer acquisition through low pricing and easy turn-ups.

There's nothing wrong with leasing transport. Almost all of NTT's network is leased, and pretty much everyone agrees they're a top flight network.

The thing that makes HE unique is that they only sell full ports. They don't do fractional billing or 95/5. You pay for 10gigs on that 10gig circuit, regardless of use. This leads to networks running HE ports near max load at peak time. From HE perspective, this is great because it's super easy to plan for and scale out. You're never surprised by a customer who goes from 3 gigs to 92 gigs on that 100gig circuit.

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#22

Post by kev009 »

scurvy wrote: post #21
kev009 wrote: post #2

It doesn't have the flash in the pan moment of sucesss like a unicorn startup but these guys will make billions some day due to all the peering agreements and interconnect (most the long haul is probably leased), especially as IPv6 takes majority prominence in the coming years. Excellent slow burner kind of business and smart customer acquisition through low pricing and easy turn-ups.

There's nothing wrong with leasing transport. Almost all of NTT's network is leased, and pretty much everyone agrees they're a top flight network. The thing that makes HE unique is that they only sell full ports. They don't do fractional billing or 95/5. You pay for 10gigs on that 10gig circuit, regardless of use. This leads to networks running HE ports near max load at peak time. From HE perspective, this is great b…

Never said there's anything wrong with it, it just changes the capital expenditure and worth from physical to virtual (peering agreements). Companies like Century Link, AT&T, Verizon are in a slightly different category with abundant in ground infrastructure (that has extreme tax benefits in the US).

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#23

Post by kev009 »

deskamess wrote: post #11
kev009 wrote: post #2

It doesn't have the flash in the pan moment of sucesss like a unicorn startup but these guys will make billions some day due to all the peering agreements and interconnect (most the long haul is probably leased), especially as IPv6 takes majority prominence in the coming years. Excellent slow burner kind of business and smart customer acquisition through low pricing and easy turn-ups.

How exactly does one purchase their solution? Or more exactly what is being purchased? Do you place your servers on their rack in various data centers, and then have access to their backbone at cheap rates?

Most people on this site don't in the same way they don't buy servers and prop up huge margins for AWS. The funny thing is it's not hard, I have my own personal autonomous system, IPs, and routing.

You buy transit at any "on net" site they are at, and that can include static IP routing with IPs they lease you or you use BGP to announce your own IPs (from the correct regional RIR). This is "The Internet".

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#24

Post by walrus01 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18
walrus01 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a topology diagram at layer 3 for their BGP / ipv4 and ipv6 network - nobody should confuse it with OSI layer 1 cable reality for where routes physically are, except at the most gross level of detail (POP in Paris is linked to POP in London, for example).

Somewhat related: OSI Layer 1 map: https://dev.networkatlas.org/

I've taken a look at this project in some detail, and it doesn't correspond with reality in many places. I have NDAed precision GIS datasets for things they're showing on their map, and they are nowhere near the actual location. In particular the submarine cable maps can be treated as logical diagrams and not physical reality.

The biggest carriers with fiber routes are NOT going to share the precision GIS datasets with a public site that will publish them for everyone to see. I have maps of hundreds of regen huts, vaults, aerial fiber splice cases and fiber routes for paths between seattle, salt lake city, denver, boise, sacramento and things throughout the western US, and they look nothing like Network Atlas' maps.

As a project it is an admirable goal, but I don't see the actual owners of the dark fiber choosing to make their data public any time soon.

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#25

Post by kev009 »

rayiner wrote: post #6
kev009 wrote: post #2

It doesn't have the flash in the pan moment of sucesss like a unicorn startup but these guys will make billions some day due to all the peering agreements and interconnect (most the long haul is probably leased), especially as IPv6 takes majority prominence in the coming years. Excellent slow burner kind of business and smart customer acquisition through low pricing and easy turn-ups.

Probably not. This is a pretty competitive space, which pushes prices towards marginal costs.

People like you are what make these kinds of infrastructure plays such an easy turkey shoot. Look up the market cap and P/E of something like Akamai. I could build out the server footprint for that in 12 months (look up my linkedin).. the peering and lines are the hard part in terms of time and capital.

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#26

Post by [deleted] »

walrus01 wrote: post #24
toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat related: OSI Layer 1 map: https://dev.networkatlas.org/

I've taken a look at this project in some detail, and it doesn't correspond with reality in many places. I have NDAed precision GIS datasets for things they're showing on their map, and they are nowhere near the actual location. In particular the submarine cable maps can be treated as logical diagrams and not physical reality. The biggest carriers with fiber routes are NOT going to share the precision GIS datasets wi…

[deleted]

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#27

Post by hnuser1234 »

kev009 wrote: post #23
deskamess wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly does one purchase their solution? Or more exactly what is being purchased? Do you place your servers on their rack in various data centers, and then have access to their backbone at cheap rates?

Most people on this site don't in the same way they don't buy servers and prop up huge margins for AWS. The funny thing is it's not hard, I have my own personal autonomous system, IPs, and routing. You buy transit at any "on net" site they are at, and that can include static IP routing with IPs they lease you or you use BGP to announce your own IPs (from the correct regional RIR). This is "The Internet".

Sorry, but

> Regional Regional Internet Registry

:P

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#28

Post by hnuser1234 »

walrus01 wrote: post #12
deskamess wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly does one purchase their solution? Or more exactly what is being purchased? Do you place your servers on their rack in various data centers, and then have access to their backbone at cheap rates?

HE is a major "IP transit" provider, if you're a small to medium sized ISP, they are one of your choices in the market for buying absolutely necessary transit to reach other parts of the Internet. Grossly simplified, you as a tiny ISP get your own AS, and at least a /24 of RIPE, APNIC or ARIN IP space, set up your own router, and announce your AS and IP space to HE over a BGP session with them. Usually via a singlemo…

Not a fan of LACNIC or AfriNIC?

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#29

Post by walrus01 »

hnuser1234 wrote: post #28
walrus01 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HE is a major "IP transit" provider, if you're a small to medium sized ISP, they are one of your choices in the market for buying absolutely necessary transit to reach other parts of the Internet. Grossly simplified, you as a tiny ISP get your own AS, and at least a /24 of RIPE, APNIC or ARIN IP space, set up your own router, and announce your AS and IP space to HE over a BGP session with them. Usually via a singlemo…

Not a fan of LACNIC or AfriNIC?

Just using them as an example of where ISPs can obtain globally routable IP space for their own AS, also HE doesn't have so many POPs in Accra, Ghana or Panama City. Of course if you're an ISP in Ghana with a transport circuit to Telehouse Docklands, in London, and want to be an HE customer, you certainly can become one.

Re: Hurricane Electric 3D network map

#30

Post by kdf83 »

dsl wrote: post #19
corint wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please forgive my ignorant question, but if they're already peering with a lot of networks, why would those networks change to paying for transit from them? Or do you think they'd start to steal paying transit customers away from some of the larger T1 networks?

When you peer with HE, you only get their paying customers routes. If you buy transit from HE, you get routes to the entire internet (and your routes go out to their peers). Peering costs them little (they just have to backhaul to a customer that is paying them anyway), for transit they may have to pay Comcast, Sprint, or another provider to reach the networks they are not directly connected to.

Or in many cases they backhaul it around the world and pass it off where they have settlement-free peering. A exotic POP means little with HE unless they pick local transit too and manage to peer with eyeball networks directly.
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