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U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#51

Post by EpicEng »

claudiawerner wrote: post #49
EpicEng wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're all people of the earth who do not need inherit value to live with some imaginary line on the ground. I'm not agreeing with the GP, but the world simply doesn't work that way. Travel across the "imaginary lines" you speak of are controlled via military might, so perhaps they're not just "imaginary". See how well you fare attempting to run across the NK/SK border.

Being "made up" (what I think GP means by "imaginary") doesn't mean that such things lack force. For instance, class is "made up" and some ontologies of race and gender fix them as "made up" - this does not, of course, mean that class, race and gender do not have very real effects on society and the individuals therein. But humans have power over human abstractions, so such "made up" things can be changed, as opposed…

Calling them "imaginary lines" was an obvious attempt by the GP to disregard them as meaningless. They are not meaningless, that was my point.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#52

Post by stcredzero »

toufiqbarhamov wrote: post #24
stcredzero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat like we're suddenly more willing to un-person people in our own society with less pretext, less proof, and less due process. It wouldn't be the first time in our history such has happened. Such things happen in US history as a precursor to wars, and during wartime.

Somewhat like we're suddenly more willing to un-person people in our own society with less pretext, less proof, and less due process. It wouldn't be the first time in our history such has happened. Such things happen in US history as a precursor to wars, and during wartime. ...And all other times. The entire history of the US was built on an entire group of people being legally “un-personed” for purely economic reaso…

...And all other times. The entire history of the US was built on an entire group of people being legally “un-personed” for purely economic reasons.

Not purely economic. There were ideological reasons used as well.

Are you sure it’s this phenomena you find troubling, or is it just who’s being targeted today?

The troubling part, is that the population who historically had the rights, and practiced the exercise of them is now giving them up, spreading the narrative that they don't matter, and trying to take them away from others through de-facto power or intimidation. (Which has nothing to do with indelible characteristics, and only has to do with the status of citizenship.)

I’m trying to be charitable, yet I’m struggling to frame your comment in another way.

This is precisely the language the "un-personing" perpetrators use to intimidate people into silence and giving up their rights. Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#53

Post by taobility »

EpicEng wrote: post #47
echevil wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is issuing the same warning to Chinese citizens traveling to US

And which Chinese citizens are we holding hostage in retaliation for an exec being jailed?

China's warning is related with US randomly violence, gun shooting, robbery etc (if you understand Chinese: http://www.china-embassy.org/chn/lszj/zytz/t1597786.htm). US and China are very different countries, like in China, the downtown of metropolis is very safe at night, but in US is totally different. And also, gun shooting in US is really normal, but extremely rare in China.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#54

Post by claudiawerner »

EpicEng wrote: post #51
claudiawerner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being "made up" (what I think GP means by "imaginary") doesn't mean that such things lack force. For instance, class is "made up" and some ontologies of race and gender fix them as "made up" - this does not, of course, mean that class, race and gender do not have very real effects on society and the individuals therein. But humans have power over human abstractions, so such "made up" things can be changed, as opposed…

Calling them "imaginary lines" was an obvious attempt by the GP to disregard them as meaningless. They are not meaningless, that was my point.

But by the same token, if we assume that GP is more than a simpleton (in the principle of charity) we must say that they would also consider art (always created by human intention) to be "imaginary lines", but I doubt they would deny paintings can have meaning. Words (usually though not always naturally evolved), by the same token, are just scrawls, but they have meaning despite being "made up" in the same way. GP knows they have meaning because he/she is using them in such a way. I read the idea that the lines are imaginary to mean that they don't have to be that way.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#55

Post by grecy »

SilasX wrote: post #43
grecy wrote: post #17

After traveling for over 2.5 years through 30 countries in Africa (still going)[1], I've learned travel advisories are extremely Political. Senegal wants to get a fair price for it's resources and asks for that? France issues a travel warning and decimates their tourist industry for a few years. It's common place for Western countries to issue travel warnings when they just don't like what a certain country is doing…

What about looking at the price of traveler's insurance?

Something most people don't know.

Your travel insurance policy is not valid if you travel to a country that has a travel warning issued by the country that the policy is issued by.

So essentially, if you go anywhere even slightly "not first world" your travel insurance is useless.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#56

Post by SilasX »

grecy wrote: post #55
SilasX wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about looking at the price of traveler's insurance?

Something most people don't know. Your travel insurance policy is not valid if you travel to a country that has a travel warning issued by the country that the policy is issued by. So essentially, if you go anywhere even slightly "not first world" your travel insurance is useless.

Yeah, but I'm talking about if you got quoted for a policy on a specific journey, not just some blanket "travel insurance" policy.

I'm pretty sure they can't quote you for a trip to Elbonia and then say "lol j/k we don't have to cover anything because there was a warning against Elbonia at the time".

(I could maybe believe they could exclude events happening after a warning after the policy was issued.)

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#57

Post by grecy »

SilasX wrote: post #56
grecy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something most people don't know. Your travel insurance policy is not valid if you travel to a country that has a travel warning issued by the country that the policy is issued by. So essentially, if you go anywhere even slightly "not first world" your travel insurance is useless.

Yeah, but I'm talking about if you got quoted for a policy on a specific journey, not just some blanket "travel insurance" policy. I'm pretty sure they can't quote you for a trip to Elbonia and then say "lol j/k we don't have to cover anything because there was a warning against Elbonia at the time". (I could maybe believe they could exclude events happening after a warning after the policy was issued.)

> I'm pretty sure they can't quote you for a trip to Elbonia and then say "lol j/k we don't have to cover anything because there was a warning against Elbonia at the time".

That's exactly what they do.

It's in the fine print. Read it.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#58

Post by fspeech »

taobility wrote: post #53
EpicEng wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And which Chinese citizens are we holding hostage in retaliation for an exec being jailed?

China's warning is related with US randomly violence, gun shooting, robbery etc (if you understand Chinese: http://www.china-embassy.org/chn/lszj/zytz/t1597786.htm ). US and China are very different countries, like in China, the downtown of metropolis is very safe at night, but in US is totally different. And also, gun shooting in US is really normal, but extremely rare in China.

This reads like an faq for people coming to US. First item reminds people to buy travel/health insurance. Second item warns against going out alone in late night. Etc. I didn't see anything political in it.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#59

Post by toufiqbarhamov »

stcredzero wrote: post #52
toufiqbarhamov wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat like we're suddenly more willing to un-person people in our own society with less pretext, less proof, and less due process. It wouldn't be the first time in our history such has happened. Such things happen in US history as a precursor to wars, and during wartime. ...And all other times. The entire history of the US was built on an entire group of people being legally “un-personed” for purely economic reaso…

...And all other times. The entire history of the US was built on an entire group of people being legally “un-personed” for purely economic reasons. Not purely economic. There were ideological reasons used as well. Are you sure it’s this phenomena you find troubling, or is it just who’s being targeted today? The troubling part, is that the population who historically had the rights, and practiced the exercise of them…

You interpreted what I said as an attack on your “personhood?” It seems to me you’re falling into the same trap of exaggerated outrage that’s so in vogue, in which taking offense is seen as something approaching a valid point or position. It is very difficult to engage with people who do this.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#60

Post by stcredzero »

toufiqbarhamov wrote: post #59
stcredzero wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...And all other times. The entire history of the US was built on an entire group of people being legally “un-personed” for purely economic reasons. Not purely economic. There were ideological reasons used as well. Are you sure it’s this phenomena you find troubling, or is it just who’s being targeted today? The troubling part, is that the population who historically had the rights, and practiced the exercise of them…

You interpreted what I said as an attack on your “personhood?” It seems to me you’re falling into the same trap of exaggerated outrage that’s so in vogue, in which taking offense is seen as something approaching a valid point or position. It is very difficult to engage with people who do this.

You interpreted what I said as an attack on your “personhood?”

No.

It seems to me you’re falling into the same trap of exaggerated outrage that’s so in vogue

Basically, I'm making this observation about you.

It is very difficult to engage with people who do this.

Basically, I'm making this observation about you.

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