Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#201

Post by clouddrover » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 9:41 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #177

Zarel wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time this came up, many people said that the primary reason to buy a Tesla was for Autopilot, which I have not yet heard of another manufacturer with an equivalent product. I think another advantage Tesla has is the Supercharger station access.

I'd agree with you on autopilot. Though, I think all that most people want is good crash avoidance plus lane keeping and traffic-aware cruise on the freeway. A lot of other car companies are there as well, and I'm starting to believe that true level 5 is a decade off or totally impossible. Supercharger access is becoming less of an exclusive as well. Electrify America is putting in a lot of stations (there's a couple…

> 350kW as soon as there's a car that can take it

Like the Porsche Taycan:

https://electrek.co/2018/07/30/porsche-taycan-all-electric-p...

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#202

Post by Agathos » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

scrumbledober wrote: post #185

alexandros wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon has not lied to the SEC. Please provide link or other evidence. He settled a claim that he manipulated the stock without admitting guilt, in order to avoid damaging the company, but that is completely different.

he said "funding secured" and didn't have any funding secured. The SEC was lenient in allowing the settlement without an admission of guilt, but that does not mean he was not guilty. I'm a huge fan of most of the things he has done, but this was a boneheaded move only surpassed by his embarrassing pedophilia comments.

Technically he was lying to his investors, not the SEC.

Of course then in that 60 Minutes interview he all but declared he wouldn't honor his side of the settlement, but we'll see if he follows through on that.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#203

Post by clouddrover » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

gibolt wrote: post #193

clouddrover wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with no established car maker able to match them yet. The Hyundai Kona EV is cheaper, has good range, and outperforms new model Teslas in 24-hour efficiency (interestingly finishing second to the original Tesla Roadster): https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-shockingly-... https://electrek.co/2018/12/23/tesla-roadster-24-hour-electr... Teslas are among the least reliable cars you can buy. If you want hi…

Kona will only be available in a small number of U.S. states and global regions, in limited quantities. It is a compliance car, to reduce the emissions overall of the fleet they sell allowing them to sell more high profit ICE cars. They are likely losing money on each sale as well. I think the Kona is a great start and wish it would have a better chance, but it is crippled from the beginning.

So you're arguing that Hyundai beats Tesla on price and efficiency even when Hyundai's not really trying? What will happen to Tesla when Hyundai really tries?

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#204

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 9:50 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #157

drcross wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd think a CEO showing off by downing a couple of shots on a comedian's podcast was a bit of a liability. You need to lighten up. Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone, if anything he garnered interest for selling more cars to the 18 million people that watched that podcast. If the CEO of was on the same podcast, do you think it would have been anywhere close to as entertaining?

> Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone, if anything he garnered interest for selling more cars to the 18 million people that watched that podcast He owes a lot to his shareholders, and wiped 9% off the value of Tesla with that podcast. If he has to be entertaining as well as reassuring them he's also laser focused on solving production challenges - and CEO of an engineering company is definitely a job description wher…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#205

Post by anthonybsd » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

gibolt wrote: post #199

anthonybsd wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Model 3 will change all that, unfortunately :(

Evidence? Most Model S and 3 owners I've heard prefer the ride of the 3.

There are obviously no official survey numbers, but there are a lot of indicators that point to the fact that rushed production for Model 3 resulted in quality control issues:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/the-biggest-problems...

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#206

Post by Agathos » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

bdhess wrote: post #119

csours wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The production and delivery numbers they came out with were very good and higher than most had expected." Every Model 3 they are producing is relatively expensive and already has a buyer. What happens when they get to the end of the list of relatively well off buyers? Certainly there will still be demand, but it will be less profitable.

What are you comparing it to when you say "relatively expensive"? I've read reviews comparing it favorably to a BMW 3 Series, which is in the same price range.

From the article:

"Tesla said more than three-quarters of orders for the sedan in the year’s final three months were from new customers, rather than reservation holders. That suggests many consumers are still waiting to buy versions of the vehicle at the long-promised $35,000 sticker price."

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#207

Post by gibolt » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #203

gibolt wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kona will only be available in a small number of U.S. states and global regions, in limited quantities. It is a compliance car, to reduce the emissions overall of the fleet they sell allowing them to sell more high profit ICE cars. They are likely losing money on each sale as well. I think the Kona is a great start and wish it would have a better chance, but it is crippled from the beginning.

So you're arguing that Hyundai beats Tesla on price and efficiency even when Hyundai's not really trying? What will happen to Tesla when Hyundai really tries?

No, I'm arguing that they have to sell a certain number, otherwise face stiff penalties in the U.S. and Europe. Discounting the car and taking a loss is better than paying the fine.

On a positive note, it is a step in the right direction to rev up that part of the company, as they will need the experience for future success when they can no longer rely on ICE sales

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#208

Post by gibolt » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 10:01 PM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #203

gibolt wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kona will only be available in a small number of U.S. states and global regions, in limited quantities. It is a compliance car, to reduce the emissions overall of the fleet they sell allowing them to sell more high profit ICE cars. They are likely losing money on each sale as well. I think the Kona is a great start and wish it would have a better chance, but it is crippled from the beginning.

So you're arguing that Hyundai beats Tesla on price and efficiency even when Hyundai's not really trying? What will happen to Tesla when Hyundai really tries?

The quality also comes nowhere close to a Tesla. While it makes a good commuter car, it is strictly not on the same playing field as a model 3, other than price and propulsion method.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#209

Post by dmode » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 10:02 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #178

dmode wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla just sold 63K Model 3s in a single quarter. Despite availability of Leaf and Bolt [both are cheaper]. None of the vehicles you have listed are true competitors to Tesla at this time. True competition will be something like an electric 3 series or C-class

The Jag and Audi are _absolutely_ competitors.

Jag IPace sold less than 200 vehicles in the US in November 2018[1]. Comparably Model X sold ~1875 in Nov 2017. [2]

[1] https://insideevs.com/november-jaguar-i-pace-sales-u-s/ [2] http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/tesla/tesla-model-...

I live in the most EV friendly region in the US and I hardly see I-Paces. Meanwhile Tesla is just crushing it here.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#210

Post by luckydata » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 10:07 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #122

luckydata wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must be living on a different planet then if you never heard a Tesla owner go on and on about how much they love their cars. Before buying one 4 days ago I had plenty of that kind of experience.

I know quite a few Tesla owners, and they all love the idea of the car far more than the actual cars themselves. After about a week, reality sets in and the misaligned panels, haphazardly responsive touchscreen, and relatively pedestrian interior furnishings start becoming noticeable. After about 2 weeks, the Tesla owners who don't live in homes (i.e., condo/apartment dwellers) even start to get annoyed at the chargi…

I have a Model 3 and I don't know WTH are you talking about. It's a great car. Panel gaps are just a little too wide for my taste in the rear doors but you rapidly forget about it when you're behind the wheel. Best car I've ever driven hands down.