Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#231

Post by sjwright » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:37 AM UTC

zozbot123 wrote: post #151

max76 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the $99/yr bar of entry. That, combined with the more rigid review process, keeps the App Store's average app quality higher than the Play Store's.

> I like the $99/yr bar of entry. I bet Apple likes it even more than you do.

It's not a competition.

There's enough love to go around.

To Apple, the $99 fee for developers is a minuscule fraction of 1 percent of a rounding error. Apple don't love it because it's money, they love it for the exact same reason I love it: it makes it a little bit harder for malicious scammers to get away with repeated criminal activity.

No, it's not a panacea. But it does weed out the utter junk and spam. It means when Apple finds something dodgy, they can sometimes find the human responsible, and it makes it expensive for developers to create new accounts if they are banned.

So much to love.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#232

Post by etse » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:41 AM UTC

lance76 wrote: post #178

stcredzero wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to blame anyone for leaving any store when there has been almost nothing of value added in years and things are even regressing. That 30% should have gone a lot further It's not really a market if the seller thinks there's no alternatives, and the buyer has no choice but to put up with anything. Works the other way around, too.

This misses the point. It is not equal. I choose Apple's store for one Very Big Reason over almost all other third-party services: I trust them with my financial details. I don't have to 'beg' to later cancel my subscription. I don't have to worry about my credit card being stolen. I don't have to worry about a bunch of sophomoric engineers breaking their own website and creating grief for me. I am in control with Ap…

Am I the only one who is convinced Apple is focused on privacy because its cloud tech is really far behind Google and privacy was a path largely ignored in a data driven world? Don’t get me wrong—I like that they pursue the privacy angle but if the company’s strengths allowed them to compete with modern web/ads services companies, I think they would not have focused on privacy as much.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#233

Post by toast0 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:43 AM UTC

83457 wrote: post #210

bkraz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also recently canceled and was surprised they didn't ask why. My reason was that the selection of content has changed dramatically. When I first signed up, I could choose a movie that I had in mind. Now, the selection of movies on Netflix streaming is extremely bleak. It's almost entirely TV shows, and about half of it is Netflix-produced. The quality of it is fine, I just don't want TV shows. I want access to the…

"I want access to the majority of movies ever produced" Appears that will never happen.

This is really unfortunate; when Netflix launched streaming, they had a partnership with Start that had a lot of popular movies, but now you would need to mix and match two or three services to get similar coverage. I've been buying more and more discs lately, because I want to watch something today, and at any time in the future.

I hope, one day, we get compulsory licensing for movies and TV shows, like is available for music -- then we can really watch whatever, as long as it has been digitized.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#234

Post by sjwright » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:45 AM UTC

josho wrote: post #144

sjwright wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past, you bought software in a box from a retailer who took a margin as high as 50%. After you pay for manufacturing and distribution (shipping shrink-wrapped boxes of CD-ROMs, multilingual manuals and a unique serial number to retailers in Alaska and Singapore is definitely not free) a developer would be lucky to end up with one third of the retail price in their pocket. The Apple app store is actually a huge…

> Apple created the marketplace It used to be that the maker of the OS spent tremendous efforts to attract developers. They did this for free to gain app market share. So, your argument falls flat. Apple is doing this to generate profit. They continue doing so because of their dominant iOS market share and that for apps there is no alternative. Please stop making excuses for trillion dollar companies.

> Apple is doing this to generate profit.

Yes, that's what companies do. If you don't like capitalism, your beef isn't with Apple, it's with your government.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#235

Post by sjwright » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:47 AM UTC

a1369209993 wrote: post #142

sjwright wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past, you bought software in a box from a retailer who took a margin as high as 50%. After you pay for manufacturing and distribution (shipping shrink-wrapped boxes of CD-ROMs, multilingual manuals and a unique serial number to retailers in Alaska and Singapore is definitely not free) a developer would be lucky to end up with one third of the retail price in their pocket. The Apple app store is actually a huge…

> In the past, you bought software in a box from a retailer who took a margin as high as 50%. In the past, you bought hardware that could run software from more than one retailer.

You still can, if that is you want.

You are free to make that choice.

Meanwhile, I'd appreciate if you didn't object to my right to choose a managed ecosystem if that is what I prefer. I like the Apple ecosystem the way it is, thank you very much.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#236

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:47 AM UTC

prklmn wrote: post #137

tanilama wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts as well. How could Apple's search so bad? If it indeed brings billions a year, why wouldn't they spend that money to improve the functionality of this revenue powerhouse? Apple tax should be stopped, people are paying penalty to use their sub par software, this is as ridiculous as it gets.

Have you ever thought about the situation as being analogous to a wholesale market like Costco? Consumers pay for a Costco membership card, similar to the iPhone as it grants access to the store, then sells products in the store at a marked up rate (Apple tax as you call it). Consumers actually choose to shop at Costco because it’s a great experience for them just as consumers choose to buy iPhones and use the App St…

> Have you ever thought about the situation as being analogous to a wholesale market like Costco? Consumers pay for a Costco membership card, similar to the iPhone as it grants access to the store, then sells products in the store at a marked up rate (Apple tax as you call it).

Having a Costco subscription doesn't interfere with the customer from buying things from Walmart or Amazon. Costco couldn't demand to pay 30% lower wholesale prices than Amazon and then charge the same retail prices because suppliers would just sell through Amazon instead and have access to all the same customers. Even customers who have a Costco card can trivially buy anything from Amazon if the product is not available at Costco or even if Amazon just has the lower price.

The difference with Apple is that iOS users can't do that. Users can't reasonably buy an iOS app through anybody but Apple.

Another difference is that a phone is more than a thing to put apps on. A Costco card is only for buying things at Costco. Someone may buy an iPhone because they prefer the OS, or the hardware, and then get stuck with the App Store because it's not sold separately. Nobody pays for a Costco membership because they like the design of the card.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#237

Post by monocularvision » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:52 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #161

ndnxhs wrote: post #96

Netflix only needs apple for distribution because apple has locked down the system so much that you are forced to go through them. Apple has added very little value and we had better systems before where you could just visit a URL and view content without needing Microsoft for distribution.

Netflix could easily stream DRM free H.264 video from their website without needing an app....

They don’t even need to make them DRM free. There are plenty of DRM options for web-based video.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#238

Post by threeseed » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

electic wrote: post #77

wand3r wrote: post #19

The Apple store seems good for small apps because the “tax” pays for discovery/marketing, distribution, billing & payment, lends credibility to the application, etc. This is especially true for single purchases. Recurring revenue is a much different proposition— even for small or first time apps. A player like netflix which handles it’s own marketing, payment and all other ancilliary services doesn’t need to anything…

> The Apple store seems good for small apps This is simply not true. As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem. It is the exception, not the rule, when they promote a smaller app. As a developer, you are on your own on the marketing and discovery front. The billing infrastructure you allude to would be easily replaceable with a dozen or so s…

> As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem

I have friends at Apple who curate the App Store and I have a number of apps on the store as well. Your statement is categorically wrong.

Apple absolutely supports small developers. If you look through many of their "editor playlists" you will see plenty of smaller apps that get a lot of attention e.g. Bear, Notability, Calm. Even apps like Instagram were small once.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#239

Post by joelrunyon » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:54 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #238

electic wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Apple store seems good for small apps This is simply not true. As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem. It is the exception, not the rule, when they promote a smaller app. As a developer, you are on your own on the marketing and discovery front. The billing infrastructure you allude to would be easily replaceable with a dozen or so s…

> As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem I have friends at Apple who curate the App Store and I have a number of apps on the store as well. Your statement is categorically wrong. Apple absolutely supports small developers. If you look through many of their "editor playlists" you will see plenty of smaller apps that get a lot of attention…

As an indie developer - HOW do you get in touch with them?

We have rave reviews on one of our apps and a very enthusiastic community in a unique space, but having a hell of a time getting the eye of anyone at Apple.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#240

Post by sandofsky » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:55 AM UTC

electic wrote: post #203

sandofsky wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is simply not true. As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem. We’re a two person shop. We’ve taken zero funding. We’re nowhere near Fortnite revenue. Apple has done an outstanding job promoting us. Last month they gave us our first Today tab feature, and at any given time we can be found in several lists.

I am really happy for you. Genuinely. But most apps do not share your fate no matter how well designed, performant, or useful. I am actually fine if Apple doesn't do any sort of discovery or promotion of our apps. Just don't charge 30 percent then.

I just opened the App Store. In the first list, “Great Apps for iPhone XR,” I’d estimate 1/3 of the apps listed were built by small, bootstrapped teams. Another third are larger companies (1Password), and the last third are pretty mainstream brands (Snapchat, Mint). Even if you draw the line for small apps below the size of 1Password, 1/3 seems like an amazingly fair share of retail space.

I’m sure many great apps went nowhere. That’s the nature of entrepreneurship. I’d say Apple’s promotion significantly improves the survival odds for small teams doing great work.