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Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

techcrunch.com

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Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#71

Post by jclardy »

todd3834 wrote: post #8
skh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that it is easy once you find the right screen. A Google search always leads me to the right screen. Apple could be better at making the location more transparent but they couldn’t make the act of canceling, once you get to the right location, easier.

Sure but the fact you have to google it every time is not exactly what I’d expect from Apple. I’m sure they will improve this. They must get a ton of support calls over this.

As a dev who works on a fairly large app with an in-app subscription, we are the ones that get a ton of support requests, even having the unsubscribe link in our own settings.

The problem is a huge percentage of users assume deleting the app will also stop their subscription, but it does not.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#72

Post by zaidf »

freedomben wrote: post #47
lathiat wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple policies explicitly forbid this. While you can use subscriptions from on the website, the app cannot in any way suggest that you do that, nor can it link to a page that directly (one click away) lets you do it.

Wow, that's interesting. Suddenly the class action lawsuit against Apple claiming they've abused their monopoly makes a lot more sense (not saying I agree with it, just that it makes more sense. I neither agree nor disagree: I'm way too ill informed to have an opinion).

This needs to goto the Supreme Court, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#73

Post by YetAnotherNick »

lathiat wrote: post #39
adrr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd consider it a tax. You can't support billing in your app for digital services unless you're willing to pay that a percentage of your revenue. So the workaround is to push people to the safari app to enter in their credit card info.

Apple policies explicitly forbid this. While you can use subscriptions from on the website, the app cannot in any way suggest that you do that, nor can it link to a page that directly (one click away) lets you do it.

It sound weird to me as an Indian. Apple supports almost zero debit cards in India and no net banking. All the apps provide 10s of different ways to pay inside the app including amazon, uber, zomato(food delivery app) and their competitors. I don’t know about Netflix but still I can bet we can add credit card inside app.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#74

Post by zaidf »

skh wrote: post #2

I wonder how much money it costs Apple to handle subscription payments/cancellations for Netflix and other streaming services. I prefer to handle subscription through Apple because cancelling such services is never difficult. I don’t know how it is on other countries but cancelling services in the U.S. can be a hellish experience. Personally, I’d be willing to pay the “Apple Tax” on top of a subscription services’ co…

I could not disagree more. It requires 5+ taps and just as many obscure screens to cancel a subscription to an iOS app. If Apple were really serious, they would have an app called Subscriptions.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#75

Post by gcb0 »

goldcd wrote: post #49
wrkronmiller wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Apple adds is non-zero. As the parent comment points out, Apple offers discovery, billing, and distribution. The App Store is a single (theoretically trusted) place for iOS users to search for apps. Let's not forget that, at least in theory, Apple curates the App Store. Neither Chrome nor AT&T does that in any substantial way. Furthermore, Apple's business model is different from Google/Android's. Android can be…

I'd agree - Apple handling payments/fraud/refunds and all the rest has value. Where they don't have a value proposition is with the larger providers of content. People turning up and wanting to buy your product (and not caring how it's provided to you) Same issue has been seen within PC gaming for many years - most consumers would quite happily add games to their Steam library - but Ubi, EA, Blizzard, Bethesda, Rocks…

That way of thinking is extremely naive.

It adds payment/fraud/refund etc only because providing that is cheaper than making sure developers pay their share after the fact. Benefits of a monopoly! Just think for one brief second how better the eco system would be by now if apple wasn't killing it via a monopoly. You are pretty much praising the mob that sells you protection because they gave you a point of sale that already subtracts their share.

That monopoly is so profitable that even TV manufacturers, kids toy manufacturers, etc now have a lock-in app store! Did you ever saw the marketing material for smart TVs development? I recommend you look it up. Their only 'feature' is 'captive users'.

Also, on your other over-simplified example, online gaming stores didn't solve any problem for the old consumers. Most of them still buy games despite the online systems like steam, while crying about lack of physical copies. What it did was unlock a huge market of non-gamers that didn't bothered to buy before.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#77

Post by electic »

wand3r wrote: post #19

The Apple store seems good for small apps because the “tax” pays for discovery/marketing, distribution, billing & payment, lends credibility to the application, etc. This is especially true for single purchases. Recurring revenue is a much different proposition— even for small or first time apps. A player like netflix which handles it’s own marketing, payment and all other ancilliary services doesn’t need to anything…

> The Apple store seems good for small apps

This is simply not true. As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem. It is the exception, not the rule, when they promote a smaller app.

As a developer, you are on your own on the marketing and discovery front. The billing infrastructure you allude to would be easily replaceable with a dozen or so startups and wouldn't warrant a 30 percent hit that Apple charges.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#78

Post by chrisan »

todd3834 wrote: post #4
skh wrote: post #2

I wonder how much money it costs Apple to handle subscription payments/cancellations for Netflix and other streaming services. I prefer to handle subscription through Apple because cancelling such services is never difficult. I don’t know how it is on other countries but cancelling services in the U.S. can be a hellish experience. Personally, I’d be willing to pay the “Apple Tax” on top of a subscription services’ co…

I’m an Apple fan all around. (Even own a homepod). But I have to disagree with “cancelling is easy”. Cancelling a subscription on iOS is so hidden that I can’t say it’s easy. I hope they change this.

Not to mention this new(?) tactic with "free trials" that automatically turn into a subscription.

I was trying out a bunch of weather apps (why is is so hard for a simple concise app with a radar without a bunch of needless fluff/wasted space) and 1 of them automatically turned into $99/year after 3 or 7 days (I forget).

The app didn't even work and would almost _always_ have the time wrong making the weather HUD also inaccurate. I tried to tell apple about this and they refused a refund. Thankfully my credit card company allowed a chargeback

I can only blame myself for forgetting these things, but it would be nice for a prompt prior to the subscription starting next time you use the app.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#79

Post by nvo »

freedomben wrote: post #47
lathiat wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple policies explicitly forbid this. While you can use subscriptions from on the website, the app cannot in any way suggest that you do that, nor can it link to a page that directly (one click away) lets you do it.

Wow, that's interesting. Suddenly the class action lawsuit against Apple claiming they've abused their monopoly makes a lot more sense (not saying I agree with it, just that it makes more sense. I neither agree nor disagree: I'm way too ill informed to have an opinion).

For Apple to abuse their monopoly they should have one to begin with.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#80

Post by xupybd »

electic wrote: post #77
wand3r wrote: post #19

The Apple store seems good for small apps because the “tax” pays for discovery/marketing, distribution, billing & payment, lends credibility to the application, etc. This is especially true for single purchases. Recurring revenue is a much different proposition— even for small or first time apps. A player like netflix which handles it’s own marketing, payment and all other ancilliary services doesn’t need to anything…

> The Apple store seems good for small apps This is simply not true. As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem. It is the exception, not the rule, when they promote a smaller app. As a developer, you are on your own on the marketing and discovery front. The billing infrastructure you allude to would be easily replaceable with a dozen or so s…

As more and more big players like this choose to move away from transactions in the app stores we may see a lowering of that 30% margin. It's way too high to last. If it came down to something sub 5% it would make a lot more sense.
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