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Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

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Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#201

Post by freedomben »

dan1234 wrote: post #105
freedomben wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's interesting. Suddenly the class action lawsuit against Apple claiming they've abused their monopoly makes a lot more sense (not saying I agree with it, just that it makes more sense. I neither agree nor disagree: I'm way too ill informed to have an opinion).

What monopoly does Apple have? They don’t have a majority share of any platform. Any app makers not happy should boycott the platform and just release Android apps. Of course, they’d also need to avoid the Google Play store as they have pretty similar rates to the App store[0] [0] https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

As I mentioned I'm not following this case really at all, but some initial thoughts from your comment are that while Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smart phones, they do have a monopoly on what software users can run on the phones and tablets they make (so if you define platform as "smartphones" then no monopoly, if platform is "iOS" then yes monopoly).

On the Android side of things, Google doesn't have near the same level of control, so that is false equivalence. One can easily side load apps, and people do all the time (Fortnite for example, couldn't happen on iOS but did on Android). There's also competing app stores (F-Droid, Amazon App store), so a very different situation. You can also run any OS you want on your device if Google's Android flavor isn't to your liking. Google also doesn't make/sell most of the hardware.

Microsoft got in trouble for simply making it very easy for people to use IE instead of Netscape and Word instead of WordPerfect. Imagine if they had gone a step further and mandated that only apps that pass a Microsoft review process could even be installed at all?

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#202

Post by Steko »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #21

Was it a mistake for Apply to set the precedent that they will not take action against large tech firms that do this? Regardless of what is a 'fair' fee, what happens when the handful of apps that generate the vast majority of revenue move their transactions away from the marketplace? What is Apple/Google's next move?

Apple's next move is to have a credible replacement for when Netflix tries to move existing customers, the same as they have for Spotify. Or perhaps they are just waiting for the media companies to be more vulnerable to their lowball offers.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#203

Post by electic »

sandofsky wrote: post #135
electic wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Apple store seems good for small apps This is simply not true. As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem. It is the exception, not the rule, when they promote a smaller app. As a developer, you are on your own on the marketing and discovery front. The billing infrastructure you allude to would be easily replaceable with a dozen or so s…

> This is simply not true. As a small app developer, I can tell you first hand that Apple only promotes and supports larger apps in the ecosystem. We’re a two person shop. We’ve taken zero funding. We’re nowhere near Fortnite revenue. Apple has done an outstanding job promoting us. Last month they gave us our first Today tab feature, and at any given time we can be found in several lists.

I am really happy for you. Genuinely. But most apps do not share your fate no matter how well designed, performant, or useful.

I am actually fine if Apple doesn't do any sort of discovery or promotion of our apps. Just don't charge 30 percent then.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#204

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

samatman wrote: post #156
max76 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the $99/yr bar of entry. That, combined with the more rigid review process, keeps the App Store's average app quality higher than the Play Store's.

What do you think is the split here though? I’d say 90% better review and 10% the annual fee, personally. Not convinced it’s worth it.

The better review is only possible because the submission rate is lower.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#205

Post by paulie_a »

zerohp wrote: post #190
sjwright wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're complaining about the experience from a developer, which is not what this analogy is about. No, Wal-Mart isn't allowed to run their own business in a company town. As for push notifications—it's not surprising that Apple doesn't allow the HTTP version because it would be chaos for battery life. Besides, any website can offer a totally free native app that simply performs push notifications for your site. You d…

Not only is it chaos for battery life, web push notifications are almost entirely spam. The web should have never added them in the first place. I’m glad that Apple stands against that crap.

Exactly, I am sick of websites asking me to enable notifications. Apps asking me to allow notifications. At the end of the day, rarely is the app worthy of that sort of interruption. I've absolutely never seen a website that can justify. But they will still somehow notify you about enabling notifications. Companies have a delusional vision that their particular product is that important to their users. It isn't.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#206

Post by quickthrower2 »

ancorevard wrote: post #173

World wide product distribution for only 30% is cheap. I see a lot of Sellers whining, but the Customers love this arrangement. Take a look at iOS satisfaction rate among its users VS the other phone vendors.

Distributing digital products worldwide isn't hard, now that we have the internet.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#207

Post by Nullabillity »

sjwright wrote: post #162
pentae wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> though it is a lot easier and cheaper to switch mobile platforms Try telling that to your customers. "Yeah sure just sell your phone and buy an Android device to use our app". And having them use Safari? Yeah right. Apple doesn't even provide push notifications for web apps. Have you ever wondered why that is? The fact is, if your customer has an iOS device, you must include Apple in the transaction and pay them 30…

You're complaining about the experience from a developer, which is not what this analogy is about. No, Wal-Mart isn't allowed to run their own business in a company town. As for push notifications—it's not surprising that Apple doesn't allow the HTTP version because it would be chaos for battery life. Besides, any website can offer a totally free native app that simply performs push notifications for your site. You d…

> As for push notifications—it's not surprising that Apple doesn't allow the HTTP version because it would be chaos for battery life.

Web push notifications use a browser-vendor-provided server to trigger notifications, the exact same architecture as APNS.

> Besides, any website can offer a totally free native app that simply performs push notifications for your site. You don't need to give up 30% of anything to Apple for that.

Iff you buy a Mac, pay their dev fees, rewrite your site as a native app, and put up with their review bullshit. That's not really an alternative to them supporting the standard.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#208

Post by masonic »

lance76 wrote: post #178
stcredzero wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to blame anyone for leaving any store when there has been almost nothing of value added in years and things are even regressing. That 30% should have gone a lot further It's not really a market if the seller thinks there's no alternatives, and the buyer has no choice but to put up with anything. Works the other way around, too.

This misses the point. It is not equal. I choose Apple's store for one Very Big Reason over almost all other third-party services: I trust them with my financial details. I don't have to 'beg' to later cancel my subscription. I don't have to worry about my credit card being stolen. I don't have to worry about a bunch of sophomoric engineers breaking their own website and creating grief for me. I am in control with Ap…

  This is also about Netflix having a LOT of extra data on their customers
If you have a Netflix subscription in the first place, you've already given them a superset of what you've given Apple's app store, haven't you? (Aside from specific card details if you use a unique card for your Netflix payment.)

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#209

Post by blihp »

m45t3r wrote: post #192
lance76 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. It is not equal. I choose Apple's store for one Very Big Reason over almost all other third-party services: I trust them with my financial details. I don't have to 'beg' to later cancel my subscription. I don't have to worry about my credit card being stolen. I don't have to worry about a bunch of sophomoric engineers breaking their own website and creating grief for me. I am in control with Ap…

> Don't be naive, everyone. This is more than just about the 30% cut. This is also about Netflix having a LOT of extra data on their customers they can't get within the Apple ecosystem.... home addresses, full names, credit card data, and possibly (yes, quiet possibly) cross-referencing that with other data providers to determine credit scores, income brackets, lifestyle choices, etc. I am no developer of iOS, but I…

While it's been a long time since I played in Apple's sandbox, I can tell you from experience in Google's that this is most certainly not how things work for your average app store developer.[1] The transaction is between the customer and the app store (i.e. Apple/Google) and the app store then acts as an intermediary telling your app if the user (effectively just a meaningless ID number from the App point of view) is authorized etc. About the only times a developer even knows that someone is a user of their app is when they need support or leave a review.

[1] There was a very brief period of time in the early days of Google supporting paid apps when some very limited customer information was provided (iirc, it was maybe email address and city level information) but that changed very quickly and I don't believe Apple ever provided this.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#210

Post by 83457 »

bkraz wrote: post #82
kraftman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were your reasons?

I also recently canceled and was surprised they didn't ask why. My reason was that the selection of content has changed dramatically. When I first signed up, I could choose a movie that I had in mind. Now, the selection of movies on Netflix streaming is extremely bleak. It's almost entirely TV shows, and about half of it is Netflix-produced. The quality of it is fine, I just don't want TV shows. I want access to the…

"I want access to the majority of movies ever produced"

Appears that will never happen.

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