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Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

oregonlive.com

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Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#91

Post by loeg »

jchw wrote: post #50

I both love and hate this story. Unfairly handing out red light tickets is rotten, but fining the man who pointed it out is beyond rotten. It's corrupt. There's no question Oregon was defending its income with that move. Dirty money. I don't feel like reversing the fine is nearly enough of a response. There was effectively no punishment for issuing that fine. But, I'm still pleased with the outcomes Järlström keeps a…

I suspect fining this guy was more retaliatory (i.e., personal grudge) than a real attempt to defend red light ticket income. But I am just speculating and am also pleased with the outcome.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#92

Post by nitwit005 »

ken wrote: post #54
c3534l wrote: post #7

I know in the US you can call yourself a real estate agent, but not a Realtor unless you're part of the National Association of Realtors. This seems just to me: an organization shouldn't be allowed to steal a word from the English language like "engineer." But if you want to create your own brand and maintain its quality, you're more than welcome to invent a novel term and do that. But simply claiming by fiat that yo…

So you think anyone should be able to call themselves "physicians" or "lawyers" or "police", as those are English words that predate their professional associations?

Police are an obvious special case, and have special laws around it.

As for physician or lawyer, people generally have no idea which terms are protected, so it tends to be a bit meaningless. There seems to be something of a permanent argument over who gets to be called "doctor", so even people in the industry might not know if it's meaningful: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5026525/

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#94

Post by stochastic_monk »

ghaff wrote: post #89
AmericanChopper wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of those guilds more as the most effective unions in the world. The reason lawyers, doctors, pilots, etc... are paid so well is because they’ve successfully limited entry into their fields. They’ve all got arduous entry requirements, and you can’t operate without the unions blessing. It’s simple supply and demand after that point.

Two of the three fields you mention are not paid especially well on average.

All three have median salaries of 6 figures.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#95

Post by loeg »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #69
gambiting wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I'm just trying to think what would be the negative consequence of someone calling themselves a lawyer or police in a TV interview like here, and I can't think of one, other than the fact that they are making an idiot out of themselves. Like, it shouldn't be illegal.

If someone who calls themselves a doctor or a lawyer goes on TV and gives medical or legal advice, that can cause harm and sets a bad precedent.

E.g., "Dr" Oz. Although I suspect most doctors are less likely to do that than folks who do not hold a medical degree.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#96

Post by loeg »

exabrial wrote: post #55
ibash wrote: post #5

“Jarlstrom’s interest stemmed from a red-light-running ticket his wife received in 2013. He spent three years analyzing the method for calculating the duration of a yellow light and found that the formula failed to account for drivers who must slow down to make a legal turn.” Quacks like a duck.

Sorry, but you didn't pay the special tax for the special piece of paper from the "us" government that that magically makes you qualified to do calculations. Do not pass go, go straight to jail.

It's a title licensed by individual state boards, rather than the federal government.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#97

Post by sys_64738 »

Engineers stake their professional reputation on their designs being up to the specification required in their field of expertise. Software has all these disclaimers that its "as-is" to protect against being sued when it goes awry. True engineers don't have such protections so certainly in software development the developer should not be called engineer.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#98

Post by iamdave »

james_s_tayler wrote: post #90
iamdave wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a person. Literally incapable of practicing medicine. Or anything beyond the quenching of thirst. Now if there were a graduate degree for that , I'd audit a class or two.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_T._Pepper I only googled that out of a sense that if someone was willing to be so dismissive off the cuff then perhaps, just perhaps, there actually really was a real Dr. Pepper and that I might find him and prove that person wrong. Well... I didn't plan on learning that today.

Hoisted, or perhaps better to say, informed by your own petard were we?

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#99

Post by selimthegrim »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

> cited the state board’s “history of overzealous enforcement actions.’’ Say what you want about the usual insanity of the law in Texas, but they handle lots of these overzealous professional state agencies in a healthy manner by means of the "Texas Sunset Commission": https://www.sunset.texas.gov . Basically, every few years state boards come up for review to see if their existence is worth it. For example, a few ye…

Please someone set this up in Louisiana. We’ll even make using turn signals mandatory when changing lanes if that’s part of the deal.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#100

Post by darpa_escapee »

wallace_f wrote: post #73
darpa_escapee wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone who calls themselves a doctor or a lawyer goes on TV and gives medical or legal advice, that can cause harm and sets a bad precedent.

Even worse, people who never mention they're doctors can cause harm by saying vaccinations cause autism. It doesn't mean it should be illegal. Due process can cause some predators to roam free, or cost taxpayers and victims expense to the benefit of evil people. This argument that something should be illegal because it can cause harm is really shallow.

I guess I just don't see the harm in requiring someone to say "I am not a doctor, but..." if they want to give medical advice while giving themselves the title of Dr. without having earned it.

However, I do see the harm in someone pretending to be a doctor and giving medical advice that can hurt or kill someone.

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