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Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

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Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#71

Post by lawnchair_larry »

jasonkester wrote: post #57
khazhoux wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you apply for a full-time software engineering position at a large company today, you will be run through the all-day series-of-hourlong-interviews, even if you are a referral. It is possible for the hiring manager to work closely with recruiter and recruiting coordinator to craft a more customized interview process, but that's rare (and, impossible at a place like Google, which decentralizes hiring). The value of…

You use the term "apply for a job", which might explain the disconnect. The post you reply to isn't about applying for jobs. You don't want to "apply" for things. You want your google VP to be having a beer with your ex-boss and worrying that his pet project was going to fail because they just can't find a guy who can really $X. But your ex boss knows a guy who absoulutely can $X, and just finished $X'ing his company…

You clearly don’t work in the industry.

Edit: I see from your other post you haven’t interviewed since 1999. Sounds about right. The hiring process does not work how you think it should.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#72

Post by mdorazio »

jasonkester wrote: post #57
khazhoux wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you apply for a full-time software engineering position at a large company today, you will be run through the all-day series-of-hourlong-interviews, even if you are a referral. It is possible for the hiring manager to work closely with recruiter and recruiting coordinator to craft a more customized interview process, but that's rare (and, impossible at a place like Google, which decentralizes hiring). The value of…

You use the term "apply for a job", which might explain the disconnect. The post you reply to isn't about applying for jobs. You don't want to "apply" for things. You want your google VP to be having a beer with your ex-boss and worrying that his pet project was going to fail because they just can't find a guy who can really $X. But your ex boss knows a guy who absoulutely can $X, and just finished $X'ing his company…

In my experience it's rare for even this kind of interaction to lead to an interview process-free result. The exception would be if "the guy" is brought in as a contractor (which these days should probably be your goal), but I've worked with a lot of large companies and HR almost always forces at least some portion of standard FTE applicant evaluation even for "the guy" type referrals.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#74

Post by BurningFrog »

compsciphd wrote: post #55
BurningFrog wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be the obligatory ex Googler claiming Google never did ask brainteaser questions, or at least they were long gone by 2006.

I was asked to estimate Pi using a unit circle (diameter = 1) inscribed in a unit square (side = 1) around 2012-2013. In a manner that would have a controllable amount of precision. They wanted monte carlo (more darts, more precision), I went riemann sums (smaller delta x, more precision). It totally through me off my game for the rest of the interview as I was constantly thinking about it. while not quite a traditio…

Unless you were interviewing for a mathematician position, I agree that's a garbage programming interviewing question. It's focused on your math skills far more than your programming skills.

If it's a "brainteaser" is I guess a matter of definition.

Look, I'm sure people are asked bad questions at all times in all companies, but the policy at Google was clearly to not do that. At least when I was there 2006-2009.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#75

Post by scarface74 »

mancerayder wrote: post #39

Great, now can Netflix, Google and Facebook do this, too? Not because I want to work in these places, but because they influence everyone else and as a senior engineer in the systems space I feel I shouldn't need to study days or weeks for fizzbuzz sorting algorithms questions that are designed to test comp sci recent grads. I have a proven career, and was never suddenly stumped in a project due to not being able to.…

People lie on resumes. Anyone I am responsible for hiring is going to sit down to a computer with an IDE and solve some problems.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#76

Post by drb91 »

scarface74 wrote: post #75
mancerayder wrote: post #39

Great, now can Netflix, Google and Facebook do this, too? Not because I want to work in these places, but because they influence everyone else and as a senior engineer in the systems space I feel I shouldn't need to study days or weeks for fizzbuzz sorting algorithms questions that are designed to test comp sci recent grads. I have a proven career, and was never suddenly stumped in a project due to not being able to.…

People lie on resumes. Anyone I am responsible for hiring is going to sit down to a computer with an IDE and solve some problems.

Hopefully the problems will be relevant to the job.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#77

Post by viraptor »

izacus wrote: post #59
Swizec wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like you're having the wrong conversations. With all your experience, why are you still going into companies through the front door? Where's your network? Fundamentally: Why are you having the "Can you code your way out of a wet paper bag" conversation instead of the "How much value can you add to this company" conversation? Perhaps my experience as a consultant/freelancer is breaking my perspective. It's…

> Fundamentally: Why are you having the "Can you code your way out of a wet paper bag" conversation instead of the "How much value can you add to this company" conversation? Because people lie. It's that simple. Referrals lie, CVs lie, friends lie to get friends in a position. Do understand that there's a fundamentally different set of problem a 40.000 FTE company has to deal with in comparison to a 30 person startup…

> Professions like laywers and doctors need to go through significantly longer hazing rituals

At least for doctors this isn't universally true. There's continuing education/certification, (which you have to do every $period) there's public reputation, there's lots of networking. From what I've seen the interviews take few hours in one day and people usually already know each other.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#78

Post by hermitdev »

jasonkester wrote: post #51
Swizec wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like you're having the wrong conversations. With all your experience, why are you still going into companies through the front door? Where's your network? Fundamentally: Why are you having the "Can you code your way out of a wet paper bag" conversation instead of the "How much value can you add to this company" conversation? Perhaps my experience as a consultant/freelancer is breaking my perspective. It's…

Well said. It occurs to me that my last job interview that involved convincing the other party that I was a good developer was back in 1999 when I had just a few years of experience. Since then every gig has come via an introduction by a former boss or co-worker, or by introducing myself to somebody with hiring authority and using a pile of impressive artifacts to skip the "can this guy do the work" questions. The fi…

Back in 2004, I interviewed for a FTE position in finance - was my first interview for a full time role post college. I was a referral from a close friend and classmate. They sent me through the ringer. Had to take brainbench tests for C++ and C# (position was for C++, but I'd been working in C# and JS for the prior 2-3 years). IIRC, only got like a 65 percentile in C++, but over 95 in C#. Also had to go through an hour plus phone screen, then a day and a half on site. Got the job, but damned if it wasn't a long process. Lots of whiteboard and verbal questions, was never put in front of a computer except for the brainbench tests ar home.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#79

Post by lazyasciiart »

smsm42 wrote: post #46
mancerayder wrote: post #39

Great, now can Netflix, Google and Facebook do this, too? Not because I want to work in these places, but because they influence everyone else and as a senior engineer in the systems space I feel I shouldn't need to study days or weeks for fizzbuzz sorting algorithms questions that are designed to test comp sci recent grads. I have a proven career, and was never suddenly stumped in a project due to not being able to.…

I interviewed at Facebook and the tech part was completely sane and appropriate, the technical task was a bit fizzbuzzy but not something you'd need to spend nights digging into obscure algorithms book, but rather simple task which required some thinking, but not too much of it. No experience with Google or Netflix. As of looking at CV, I've seen people with great CVs that proved utterly useless and of course the opp…

I tech screened at Facebook and the whiteboard question was to partially implement a regex parser.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#80

Post by lazyasciiart »

izacus wrote: post #59
Swizec wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like you're having the wrong conversations. With all your experience, why are you still going into companies through the front door? Where's your network? Fundamentally: Why are you having the "Can you code your way out of a wet paper bag" conversation instead of the "How much value can you add to this company" conversation? Perhaps my experience as a consultant/freelancer is breaking my perspective. It's…

> Fundamentally: Why are you having the "Can you code your way out of a wet paper bag" conversation instead of the "How much value can you add to this company" conversation? Because people lie. It's that simple. Referrals lie, CVs lie, friends lie to get friends in a position. Do understand that there's a fundamentally different set of problem a 40.000 FTE company has to deal with in comparison to a 30 person startup…

Many people interviewing there are already among the most highly paid people in the world (lots of them are just moving around within that group) so that argument is pretty irrelevant.
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